Dolores Umbridge: Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince Spoilers

[Tim Bruening]

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a


At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

[kittykat810]

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood >Prince and Harry Potter And

The Order Of The >Phoenix.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends >Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors >on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the >Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends >have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor >at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of >Mysteries?

And for that matter, how did she escape from the centaurs that had carried
her off in book 5? I didn't understand how she was still alive and back at
the ministry, when she so clearly was being held by the centaurs, and they
wouldn't let her go so easily.

Kitty

[Trond Michelsen]

Post by kittykat810

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood >Prince and Harry Potter And

The Order Of The >Phoenix.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a

And for that matter, how did she escape from the centaurs that had carried
her off in book 5? I didn't understand how she was still alive and back at
the ministry, when she so clearly was being held by the centaurs, and they
wouldn't let her go so easily.

Didn't you notice that Umbridge was in the hospital wing at the end of OotP?

--8<--
All six of them looked around. Professor Umbridge was lying in a bed
opposite them, gazing up at the ceiling. Dumbledore had strode alone
into the Forest to rescue her from the centaurs; how he had done it how
he had emerged from the trees supporting Professor Umbridge without so
much as a scratch on him nobody knew, and Umbridge was certainly not
telling.
--8<--

[David]

Post by kittykat810

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood >Prince and Harry Potter And

The Order Of The >Phoenix.
And for that matter, how did she escape from the centaurs that had carried
her off in book 5? I didn't understand how she was still alive and back at
the ministry, when she so clearly was being held by the centaurs, and they
wouldn't let her go so easily.

At the end of OotP, Dumbledore waslked into the Forbidden Forest and
walked back out with Umbridge. Noone knew how he got her out, but she
got real nervous when Ron made hoofbeat sounds.

David

[Tim Bruening]

Post by kittykat810

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood >Prince and Harry Potter And

The Order Of The >Phoenix.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends >Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors >on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the >Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends >have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor >at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of >Mysteries?

And for that matter, how did she escape from the centaurs that had carried
her off in book 5? I didn't understand how she was still alive and back at
the ministry, when she so clearly was being held by the centaurs, and they
wouldn't let her go so easily.

Dumbledore rescued her from the centaurs. However, I doubt that he would
intervene to keep her out of Azkaban, so why isn't she in Azkaban?

[Eric Bohlman]

Post by Tim Bruening
Dumbledore rescued her from the centaurs. However, I doubt that he
would intervene to keep her out of Azkaban, so why isn't she in
Azkaban?

Politics. Putting her on trial would have made Fudge look bad. Now that
Scrimgeour's taken over, pursuing her would make it seem like he was
pursuing a vendetta against Fudge, which would make him look bad. It's all
about the drive to save face.

[keo8128]

Doesn't anyone feel a little sick about the fact that Harry has both
used and attempted to use the Cruciatus Curse as well? On MULTIPLE
occasions? I sometimes find it hard to be completely pro-Harry when he
starts doing stuff like that, which brings him to *their* level.

[Eric Bohlman]

Post by keo8128
Doesn't anyone feel a little sick about the fact that Harry has both
used and attempted to use the Cruciatus Curse as well? On MULTIPLE
occasions? I sometimes find it hard to be completely pro-Harry when he
starts doing stuff like that, which brings him to *their* level.

And he seems to have become awfully fond of Sectumsempra as well. He's
showing some signs of believing that the ends justify the means. Or maybe
he's just feeling desperate and lashing out, but then that ties in to what
I've been saying in another thread about power that you don't have the
maturity to handle being especially corrupting.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Eric Bohlman

Post by keo8128
Doesn't anyone feel a little sick about the fact that Harry has both
used and attempted to use the Cruciatus Curse as well? On MULTIPLE
occasions? I sometimes find it hard to be completely pro-Harry when he
starts doing stuff like that, which brings him to *their* level.

And he seems to have become awfully fond of Sectumsempra as well. He's
showing some signs of believing that the ends justify the means. Or maybe
he's just feeling desperate and lashing out, but then that ties in to what
I've been saying in another thread about power that you don't have the
maturity to handle being especially corrupting.

Draco tried to Cruciatus Harry in the bathroom, just before Harry used the
Sectumsempra curse on Draco. Shouldn't Draco's attempted Cruciatus mitigate
Harry's punishment?

[Gary G]

Yes - and what came of that.
Draco wasn't punished.

Come on - through hundreds of years of Hogwartz,
no student has ever attempted one of those curses?

Is there a cure for Adavra Cadavre - or however it's spelled?

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Gary G
Yes - and what came of that.
Draco wasn't punished.
Come on - through hundreds of years of Hogwartz,
no student has ever attempted one of those curses?
Is there a cure for Adavra Cadavre - or however it's spelled?

No.

I'm surprised that Harry didn't say to Snape "But Professor, Draco was
trying to perform the Cruciatus Curse on me!

[Mark Evans]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Gary G
Yes - and what came of that.
Draco wasn't punished.
Come on - through hundreds of years of Hogwartz,
no student has ever attempted one of those curses?
Is there a cure for Adavra Cadavre - or however it's spelled?

No.
I'm surprised that Harry didn't say to Snape "But Professor, Draco was
trying to perform the Cruciatus Curse on me!

He knows Snape well enough to realise that there is no point doing so.

[Helena Bowles]

Post by Gary G
Yes - and what came of that.
Draco wasn't punished.
Come on - through hundreds of years of Hogwartz,
no student has ever attempted one of those curses?
Is there a cure for Adavra Cadavre - or however it's spelled?

Tut tut! You need to reread ;-) There is no counter curse for Avada
Kedavra - Harry is the only one ever to survive it...

And I'd like to see a "cure" for Avada Kedavra as that would be a cure
for death...
HELENA

[Gary G]

Yes -- of course. It's been so long since I've read
the others, I've forgotten 90% of it all!

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Gary G
Yes - and what came of that.
Draco wasn't punished.
Come on - through hundreds of years of Hogwartz,
no student has ever attempted one of those curses?
Is there a cure for Adavra Cadavre - or however it's spelled?

No.

I'm surprised that Harry didn't say to Snape "But Professor, Draco was
trying to perform the Cruciatus Curse on me!

[Gary G]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[SPT]

Post by keo8128
Doesn't anyone feel a little sick about the fact that Harry has both
used and attempted to use the Cruciatus Curse as well? On MULTIPLE
occasions?

Harry only attempts to use the Cruciatus Curse while in combat against
Death Eaters. This is very different from using it against a helpless
opponent.

If someone is trying to kill you, using Cruciatus on them is
acceptable. Even using lethal force.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by keo8128
Doesn't anyone feel a little sick about the fact that Harry has both
used and attempted to use the Cruciatus Curse as well? On MULTIPLE
occasions? I sometimes find it hard to be completely pro-Harry when he
starts doing stuff like that, which brings him to *their* level.

Harry hasn't yet succeeded in producing the Cruciatus effect. I bet that
he would be able to produce the pain effect if he used it on Draco, Snape,
Voldemort, or Umbridge. I also bet that he could successfully use the
Avada Kedavra curse on those 4.

[keo8128]

I mean, you all are criticizing Umbridge and saying that she should be
in jail for it, but what about Harry? Even on bad people, its still an
Unforgiveable Curse for a reason.

[Paul Lints]

Post by keo8128
I mean, you all are criticizing Umbridge and saying that she should be
in jail for it, but what about Harry? Even on bad people, its still an
Unforgiveable Curse for a reason.

We don't know enough to know whether Harry is legally culpable. Using
Unforgivables on known Death Eaters was legalized in the first war, and
it was never stated that the law was repealed.

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by keo8128
I mean, you all are criticizing Umbridge and saying that she should be
in jail for it, but what about Harry? Even on bad people, its still an
Unforgiveable Curse for a reason.

I have wondered why Harry didn't go to Azkaban for using Unforgivable Curses.

[Brand]

Post by Eric Bohlman

Post by Tim Bruening
Dumbledore rescued her from the centaurs. However, I doubt that he
would intervene to keep her out of Azkaban, so why isn't she in
Azkaban?

Politics. Putting her on trial would have made Fudge look bad. Now that
Scrimgeour's taken over, pursuing her would make it seem like he was
pursuing a vendetta against Fudge, which would make him look bad. It's all
about the drive to save face.

And now that they actually accept that Volder's is back, they need all the
people in the Ministry they can get to do the paperwork.
Even evil witches who torture kids.

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by kittykat810

Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood >Prince and Harry Potter And

The Order Of The >Phoenix.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends >Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors >on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the >Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends >have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor >at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of >Mysteries?

And for that matter, how did she escape from the centaurs that had carried
her off in book 5? I didn't understand how she was still alive and back at
the ministry, when she so clearly was being held by the centaurs, and they
wouldn't let her go so easily.

Dumbledore rescued her.

[Ron J]

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

Well, after all, Dumbledore did bring her out of the forest, away from the
centaurs. She may have had some respect for him for rescuing her.
I doubt thought Harry and company said anything about the curse and the
confession to anyone else except to Dumbledore. They would have thought it
sufficient that he knew. Dumbledore might have thought that the centaurs
properly "humbled" her and did not see the need for further punishment.

[Jim]

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry
Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's
funeral. Why isn't she in Azkaban...

At the funeral, "she" was really Dumbledore, on Polyjuice...

Jim

[Dave Hinz]

Post by Jim

Post by Tim Bruening
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's
funeral. Why isn't she in Azkaban...

At the funeral, "she" was really Dumbledore, on Polyjuice...

Afraid not. He's dead, Jim.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Jim

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry
Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's
funeral. Why isn't she in Azkaban...

At the funeral, "she" was really Dumbledore, on Polyjuice...

How would Dumbledore manage that?

[Jim]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Jim

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry
Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's
funeral. Why isn't she in Azkaban...

At the funeral, "she" was really Dumbledore, on Polyjuice...

How would Dumbledore manage that?

Sorry, I forgot to add a ":-)". For the record, I'm in the
"Dumbledore is dead" group.

Jim

[Gary G]

Accio bad theory.
Repairo.

[Jim Hawkins]

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

The magical world finds it difficult to believe HP - and I think will
continue to do so, even to the extent of refusing to believe HP saw Snape
murder DD.

Jim Hawkins

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Jim Hawkins

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

The magical world finds it difficult to believe HP - and I think will
continue to do so, even to the extent of refusing to believe HP saw Snape
murder DD.

I got the impression in book 6 that everyone was lionizing Harry, calling him
"The Chosen One"! I therefore expect that everyone would believe Harry's
stroy about Snape!

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by Jim Hawkins

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

The magical world finds it difficult to believe HP - and I think will
continue to do so, even to the extent of refusing to believe HP saw Snape
murder DD.

Harry et al could arrange for the appropriate memories to be shown in the Pensieve.

[Melissa Houle]

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

That's one thing that disappointed me in HBP... I would have LOVED to see
Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville and Ginny all testify at a trial of Dolores
Umbridge and her considering using the Cruciatus curse on Harry, and have
her packed off to Azkaban in disgrace.. No such luck, but if it had been my
story to tell, she would have been! Ah well, there's still one more book,
so maybe she'll get her comeuppance yet.

I don't think Dumbledore would have excused the use of the Cruciatus curse
against ANY Hogwarts student, and least of all upon Harry. Maybe Umbridge's
saving grace was that she didn't actually get as far as using the spell. But
she was ready and even eager to do it. And she did use that awful quill to
punish Harry and others, repeatedly.

Melissa

[Kish]

Post by Melissa Houle

Post by Tim Bruening
Spoilers for Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, and Harry Potter
And The Order Of The Phoenix.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
=
\
]
[
p
o
i
u
y
t
r
e
w
q
a

I don't think Dumbledore would have excused the use of the Cruciatus curse
against ANY Hogwarts student, and least of all upon Harry. Maybe Umbridge's
saving grace was that she didn't actually get as far as using the spell. But
she was ready and even eager to do it.

You know, I actually thought at the time that it was a pity Hermione
didn't wait five more seconds to stop Umbridge, to let Umbridge earn
herself a life sentence in Azkaban. But I can't blame Hermione for not
wanting Harry to undergo the Cruciatus Curse, even briefly.

(mn.humor? Why? Oh, of course--Tim.)

[Shiral]

You and me, both. Three seconds would have been enough, and I'm sure
Hermione wouldn't have been able to stand seeing Harry endure that for
longer. It could have punched up the drama in that scene a notch. There
were seveal witnesses, and I think the Slytherins would have had to
testify if summoned by the Ministry.

But Umbridge deserved much worse than she got! I hope she has a
comeuppance at some point, the horrible creature.

Melissa

[Gary G]

Post by Tim Bruening
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

Becuase it's not illegal to "tortuy" students, only to torture them.

Accio your typing fingers.
Repairo.
Go back typing hands. (I don't know the opposite of Accio . . .)
There - that's fixed.

[Dave Hinz]

Post by Gary G
Becuase it's not illegal to "tortuy" students, only to torture them.
Accio your typing fingers.
Repairo.
Go back typing hands. (I don't know the opposite of Accio . . .)
There - that's fixed.

Um, Gary? Speeling flames were pathetic already a decade ago.

[Gary G]

Yes - but it's my boring day at work . . .

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Gary G

Post by Tim Bruening
At the end of the book, Dolores Umbridge attends Dumbledore's funeral.
Why isn't she in Azkaban for sicking dementors on Harry Potter,
tortuying students, and attempting to use the Crucius Curse on Harry
Potter? Wouldn't Harry Potter and his friends have told the MoM about
Umbridges crimes after Harry returned to favor at the MoM due to
Voldemort being seen at the Department of Mysteries?

Becuase it's not illegal to "tortuy" students, only to torture them.
Accio your typing fingers.
Repairo.
Go back typing hands. (I don't know the opposite of Accio . . .)
There - that's fixed.

The opposite of a Summoning Charm is a Banishing Charm.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Gary G
Becuase it's not illegal to "tortuy" students, only to torture them.
Accio your typing fingers.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Post by Gary G
Repairo.
Go back typing hands. (I don't know the opposite of Accio . . .)
There - that's fixed.