Snape And Emmeline Vance: Half-Blood Prince & Deathly Hallows Spoilers

[Tim Bruening]

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).

The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

[Welsh Dog]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I was expecting her to reappear to demonstrate DD's insistence to
Draco that people could be made to appear dead... else Snape (and by
extension DD) sacrificed her to further his and DD's ends.... which is
a bit callous to say the least.


Welshdog

[Monika]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I was expecting her to reappear to demonstrate DD's insistence to
Draco that people could be made to appear dead... else Snape (and by
extension DD) sacrificed her to further his and DD's ends.... which is
a bit callous to say the least.
Welshdog
--
Australian Opinion http://australianopinion.com
News and views... for people like youse!!

It is a bit callaus, I must agree, but in war, as with chess, sometimes you
have to sacrifice a few pawns. Didn't Churchill sacrifice Coventry to
protect the secrecy of the Bletchley Park operations?

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Monika

Post by Welsh Dog
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I was expecting her to reappear to demonstrate DD's insistence to
Draco that people could be made to appear dead... else Snape (and by
extension DD) sacrificed her to further his and DD's ends.... which is
a bit callous to say the least.
Welshdog
--
Australian Opinion http://australianopinion.com
News and views... for people like youse!!

It is a bit callaus, I must agree, but in war, as with chess, sometimes you
have to sacrifice a few pawns. Didn't Churchill sacrifice Coventry to
protect the secrecy of the Bletchley Park operations?

I don't know. I wasn't in his cabinet at the time.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Monika

Post by Welsh Dog
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I was expecting her to reappear to demonstrate DD's insistence to
Draco that people could be made to appear dead... else Snape (and by
extension DD) sacrificed her to further his and DD's ends.... which is
a bit callous to say the least.
Welshdog
--
Australian Opinion http://australianopinion.com
News and views... for people like youse!!

It is a bit callaus, I must agree, but in war, as with chess, sometimes you
have to sacrifice a few pawns. Didn't Churchill sacrifice Coventry to
protect the secrecy of the Bletchley Park operations?

Did Churchill reveal the IDs of British agents to the Nazis?

[Solnichka Frankenstein]

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

War is hell, dude.

My guess is Snape was only saying that to Bellatrix to earn her trust,
when possibly LV learned the info elsewhere.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Solnichka Frankenstein

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

War is hell, dude.
My guess is Snape was only saying that to Bellatrix to earn her trust,
when possibly LV learned the info elsewhere.

Wouldn't LV say that he learned the info elsewhere when Bellatrix asks him?

[IsaacKuo]

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

Post by Tim Bruening
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).

Yes, and it's probably true. If he were lying, then you'd think he
could make a better lie which wasn't so indirect.

Post by Tim Bruening
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

The way he says it, he claims to betray the Order--not specifically
Vance. Similarly, he never specifically betrayed Moody.
Nevertheless, the information he provided about the Order certainly
led to his death.

Isaac Kuo

[Here in Minnesota]

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information
he has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An
OOTP member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows).
Harry views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape
so loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I would highlight the word claims in the sentence "Snape *claims* that
information". He told some lies to Bellatrix on page 30. I wouldn't assume
it to be completely true.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Here in Minnesota

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information
he has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An
OOTP member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows).
Harry views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape
so loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I would highlight the word claims in the sentence "Snape *claims* that
information". He told some lies to Bellatrix on page 30. I wouldn't assume
it to be completely true.

Surely he dare not lie about info he gives to Voldemort.

[Carpe Deim]

Post by Tim Bruening
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I believe Snape did betray Emmeline Vance and furthermore I think DD
told him to do it. When he's a portrait he tells Snape to relay the
_real_ night Harry is to leave Priv Drive in order to keep his cover
and stay in good stead with V. Pawns have to be sacrificed 'for the greater
good'. Which is the defeat of V. DD tells Harry at the end of OOTP "what
did I care if countless wizards and creatures were slaughtered as long as
you were safe' (paraphrasing but I think thats basically accurate).

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Carpe Deim

Post by Tim Bruening
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I believe Snape did betray Emmeline Vance and furthermore I think DD
told him to do it. When he's a portrait he tells Snape to relay the
_real_ night Harry is to leave Priv Drive in order to keep his cover
and stay in good stead with V. Pawns have to be sacrificed 'for the greater
good'. Which is the defeat of V. DD tells Harry at the end of OOTP "what
did I care if countless wizards and creatures were slaughtered as long as
you were safe' (paraphrasing but I think thats basically accurate).

Why would DD deem it necessary to sacrifice Vance?

[Petrea Mitchell]

At 04 Aug 2007 21:12:40 GMT,

Post by Carpe Deim
I believe Snape did betray Emmeline Vance and furthermore I think DD
told him to do it. When he's a portrait he tells Snape to relay the
_real_ night Harry is to leave Priv Drive in order to keep his cover
and stay in good stead with V.

I think that DD did not specifically mean to sacrifice Vance, but that
he did authorize Snape to reveal certain information to Voldemort, and
then unfortunate circumstances led to her being wherever it was when
the Death Eaters showed up.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Carpe Deim

Post by Tim Bruening
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

I believe Snape did betray Emmeline Vance and furthermore I think DD
told him to do it. When he's a portrait he tells Snape to relay the
_real_ night Harry is to leave Priv Drive in order to keep his cover
and stay in good stead with V. Pawns have to be sacrificed 'for the greater
good'. Which is the defeat of V. DD tells Harry at the end of OOTP "what
did I care if countless wizards and creatures were slaughtered as long as
you were safe' (paraphrasing but I think thats basically accurate).

DD and Snape sure took a big risk when Snape told Voldemort the correct timing for Harry Potter's departure from his childhood home! They risked total mission failure (the death of Potter).

[Meghan Noecker]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

Dumbledore was raising and training Harry to sacrifice himself. His
mistake (in his opinion) was that he cared too much for Harry. He was
willing to sacrifice Harry as a tool for the "greater good". I'm sure
a few others were sacrificed as well. That is what generals do in war.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

Dumbledore was raising and training Harry to sacrifice himself. His
mistake (in his opinion) was that he cared too much for Harry. He was
willing to sacrifice Harry as a tool for the "greater good". I'm sure
a few others were sacrificed as well. That is what generals do in war.

But Dumbledore did not reveal Harry's location to Voldemort.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:10:21 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
Page 30 of hardback Half Blood Prince: Snape claims that information he
has provided to Voldemort led to the murder of Emmeline Vance (An OOTP
member).
The Prince's Tale (Chapter 33, pages 659-690 of Deathly Hallows). Harry
views Snape's memories, which show that he had been working for
Dumbledore all along as a deep cover agent against Voldemort, out of
love for Lilly Evans Potter. I find it hard to believe that a Snape so
loyal to Dumbledore would betray Emmeline Vance, or that Dumbledore
would allow Snape to do so.

Dumbledore was raising and training Harry to sacrifice himself. His
mistake (in his opinion) was that he cared too much for Harry. He was
willing to sacrifice Harry as a tool for the "greater good". I'm sure
a few others were sacrificed as well. That is what generals do in war.

Deliberately reveal the locations of members of their secret organizations to
the enemy?