Looks like this site has died . . .

[Judy Scobee]

after many years & the last HP movie, ending a good story!

=Judy=

[BubblyBabs]

Sigh... So many memories...

[Deevo]

Post by BubblyBabs
Sigh... So many memories...

Indeed, though the rot could be seen in the months preceeding the release of
the DH book. Not just here either, there were many web forums that imploded
when some plot elements came to pass and it was clear to certain elements in
the fandom that they weren't going to get their way.

Personally I suspect that much of DH was written at the same time as PS and
that much of it was more a fleshing out of the outline rather than an all
new book.

My favourite book will remain HBP as it felt like the characters were fully
fleshed out by that time and ready for a quest that never really lived up to
it's promise.

All IMO of course.

[Igenlode Wordsmith]

Post by Deevo

Post by BubblyBabs
Sigh... So many memories...

Indeed, though the rot could be seen in the months preceeding the
release of the DH book. Not just here either, there were many web
forums that imploded when some plot elements came to pass and it was
clear to certain elements in the fandom that they weren't going to get
their way.

[snip]

Well, a lot of the activity here was always speculation about what was
going to happen next (plus the perennial favourite of "is Snape evil?"),
so once that had gone there was an inevitable vacuum in traffic...

For my part, I didn't feel terribly inspired by the last few books, and
a lot of people seemed to stop writing fan-fiction too. In a way having
a 'fixed' canon ought to make things simpler -- less probability of
having your pet story rendered AU by the next book's publication! -- but
it seemed to choke things off rather.

Maybe we were just all exhausted by years of hype with diminishing
actual returns (I mean, *nothing* could live up to the desperation of
wanting to know what happened next -- the final unveiling was always
going to be a disappointment).

[Deevo]

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith

Post by Deevo

Post by BubblyBabs
Sigh... So many memories...

Indeed, though the rot could be seen in the months preceeding the
release of the DH book. Not just here either, there were many web
forums that imploded when some plot elements came to pass and it was
clear to certain elements in the fandom that they weren't going to get
their way.

[snip]
Well, a lot of the activity here was always speculation about what was
going to happen next (plus the perennial favourite of "is Snape evil?"),
so once that had gone there was an inevitable vacuum in traffic...

True enough, still speculation about the future or even the time between
thge books and the epilogue was of some interest. There were a lot of loose
ends to be tied up.

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
For my part, I didn't feel terribly inspired by the last few books, and
a lot of people seemed to stop writing fan-fiction too. In a way having
a 'fixed' canon ought to make things simpler -- less probability of
having your pet story rendered AU by the next book's publication! -- but
it seemed to choke things off rather.

Yes it did. Still I wasn't that dissapointed with the final books except
for DH. I felt the characters had been developed nicely yet had some
significant regressions in the last book.

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
Maybe we were just all exhausted by years of hype with diminishing
actual returns (I mean, *nothing* could live up to the desperation of
wanting to know what happened next -- the final unveiling was always
going to be a disappointment).

Sigh ... you're probably right. Oh well it's over now and I doubt we'll
ever see the like of it again.

[Troels Forchhammer]

In message <news:***@snorky.mixmin.net>
Igenlode Wordsmith spoke these staves:
<snip>

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
Well, a lot of the activity here was always speculation about what
was going to happen next (plus the perennial favourite of "is
Snape evil?"), so once that had gone there was an inevitable
vacuum in traffic...

Some of the threads that I remember the fondest were always those
that tried to look behind the books -- to establish how things, and
particularly magic, might work in the magical world that Rowling had
created. These could continue as happily now as before, but somehow
they don't seem to be materialising.

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
For my part, I didn't feel terribly inspired by the last few
books,

I am afraid that I would have to express it a bit stronger -- the
last two books were, to me, deeply disappointing, and I wanted
nothing more to do with the whole Potter thing (I even at some point
considered getting rid of my books). I have never gone back to the
books since finishing the last, though I suppose that I may one day
choose to read the first five again.

<snip>

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
Maybe we were just all exhausted by years of hype with diminishing
actual returns (I mean, *nothing* could live up to the desperation
of wanting to know what happened next -- the final unveiling was
always going to be a disappointment).

But if that was all we had, then Galadriel Waters who published the
ultimate guides -- books that analyzed the books for clues to the
resolution -- was on the right track, whatever we may think of the
clues themselves (and the density of them).

I do think that the books -- and the earlier books in particular --
do merit more attention than that, and that there are depths that
could be plored in search of meaning (also without trying to twist
the books to be sermons for Christianity). There is material in the
Potter books both for serious literary criticism (perhaps mainly
source studies, but still), and for the kind of fannish discussions
that are so ripe in Tolkien fandom (where are the Balrog wings of
Potterverse?).

There's a guy, Bruce Charlton, who has recently blogged about the
contrast between Rowling's surface 'political correctness' and the
underlying currents that seem to justify prejudice. While I don't
think he is entirely correct, there are definitely some valid points
in his analysis:
http://notionclubpapers.blogspot.dk/2012/06/prejudice-in-harry-
potter-novels.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/7etl92c

In fact the house-elves might be the Balrog-wings of Potterverse
(though the discussion of house-elves would invite considerably more
substance than the ridiculous discussion of Balrog-wings) ;-)

Is the servitude of the house-elves an inherited (genetic) trait
(making Dobby a freak) or is it somehow imposed on them (presumably
by some clever magic)? And is it right to seek to free even the
house-elves who do not wish for that freedom?

[Chan Welbourne]

Post by Troels Forchhammer
And is it right to seek to free even the
house-elves who do not wish for that freedom?

Looks like you missed Victor's papers on his involvement with WB, JKR,
the Trio and the evidence that Rowling completely plqagiarized, words,
ideas and text, the PS/SS?

And that the other boooks especially those written after CoS were
collaborations of dozens of "authors" of which Rowling was one of many?
:/

[Wilford Dumont]

Post by Chan Welbourne

Post by Troels Forchhammer
And is it right to seek to free even the
house-elves who do not wish for that freedom?

Looks like you missed Victor's papers on his involvement with WB, JKR,
the Trio and the evidence that Rowling completely plqagiarized, words,
ideas and text, the PS/SS?
And that the other boooks especially those written after CoS were
collaborations of dozens of "authors" of which Rowling was one of many?
:/

Careful.

[Chan Welbourne]

Post by Wilford Dumont

Post by Chan Welbourne

Post by Troels Forchhammer
And is it right to seek to free even the
house-elves who do not wish for that freedom?

Looks like you missed Victor's papers on his involvement with WB, JKR,
the Trio and the evidence that Rowling completely plqagiarized, words,
ideas and text, the PS/SS?
And that the other boooks especially those written after CoS were
collaborations of dozens of "authors" of which Rowling was one of many?
:/

Careful.

We've had this discussion. I don't believe he is dead. Victor has gone
missing on occassion before altho not for the lond period as this. :-(

I retain the content of his letters pulled from the Jottit archives. If
he is not about by the end of the Summer, I intewnd to republish them.
Carfeul, fuck that. 8-o

[Tennant Stuart]

Post by Troels Forchhammer

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
Well, a lot of the activity here was always speculation about what
was going to happen next (plus the perennial favourite of "is
Snape evil?"), so once that had gone there was an inevitable
vacuum in traffic...

Some of the threads that I remember the fondest were always those
that tried to look behind the books -- to establish how things, and
particularly magic, might work in the magical world that Rowling had
created. These could continue as happily now as before, but somehow
they don't seem to be materialising.

Post by Igenlode Wordsmith
For my part, I didn't feel terribly inspired by the last few books

I am afraid that I would have to express it a bit stronger -- the
last two books were, to me, deeply disappointing, and I wanted
nothing more to do with the whole Potter thing (I even at some point
considered getting rid of my books). I have never gone back to the
books since finishing the last, though I suppose that I may one day
choose to read the first five again.

My copies of the last two books have only been read once.

DVDs of the last three movies sit unwatched on the shelf.


Tennant Stuart

[Troels Forchhammer]

<snip>

Post by Tennant Stuart

the last two books were, to me, deeply disappointing, and I
wanted nothing more to do with the whole Potter thing (I even at
some point considered getting rid of my books). I have never
gone back to the books since finishing the last, though I suppose
that I may one day choose to read the first five again.

My copies of the last two books have only been read once.

While at one level it saddens me that things should go like that,
but at another I have to admit that it's good to know that I am not
the only one to be so deeply disappointed with the last couple of
books.

Post by Tennant Stuart
DVDs of the last three movies sit unwatched on the shelf.

With four children in the house -- at least two of whom are very
fond of the films -- my DVDs are not quite as unused as that ;-) On
the other hand, I thought that the last films did go some way
towards fixing a few of the faults (as I perceive it) of the books,
though they couldn't fix them all. I actually think that the story
as told in the _Half Blood Prince_ and the first of the _Deathly
Hallows_ films are considerable improvements on Rowling's story in
those two books . . .

[w***@knows.com]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 21:40:19 +0200, Troels Forchhammer

Post by Troels Forchhammer
<snip>

Post by Tennant Stuart

the last two books were, to me, deeply disappointing, and I
wanted nothing more to do with the whole Potter thing (I even at
some point considered getting rid of my books). I have never
gone back to the books since finishing the last, though I suppose
that I may one day choose to read the first five again.

My copies of the last two books have only been read once.

While at one level it saddens me that things should go like that,
but at another I have to admit that it's good to know that I am not
the only one to be so deeply disappointed with the last couple of
books.

For what it's worth, I too was very disappointed in the last two
books. Book Six was downright dreadful except for the first chapter
and the last three. Book Seven was a little better but still not
nearly as good as the first five. And don't get me started on that
awful epilogue!

When I think of the series these days, which isn't very often, I think
of the first five books and forget the last two, imagining that the
series ended with Dumbledore and Harry combining to kill Lord
Voldemort at the end of the fight in the Ministry of Magic, Sirius
Black having died gallantly in the final battle.

[Tennant Stuart]

Post by w***@knows.com

Post by Tennant Stuart
My copies of the last two books have only been read once.
While at one level it saddens me that things should go like that,
but at another I have to admit that it's good to know that I am not
the only one to be so deeply disappointed with the last couple of
books.

For what it's worth, I too was very disappointed in the last two
books. Book Six was downright dreadful except for the first chapter
and the last three. Book Seven was a little better but still not
nearly as good as the first five. And don't get me started on that
awful epilogue!
When I think of the series these days, which isn't very often, I think
of the first five books and forget the last two, imagining that the
series ended with Dumbledore and Harry combining to kill Lord
Voldemort at the end of the fight in the Ministry of Magic, Sirius
Black having died gallantly in the final battle.

The theory was advanced on this very forum that after the long wait
for Book Five, Rowling employed a ghost writer to finish Book Six, and
help out with Book Seven. I never believed in it since writers have a
need to write, and she doesn't want for money - but I agreed that the
later books do *read* as though that is just what happened. :(


Tennant

[Tennant Stuart]

Post by Troels Forchhammer

Post by Tennant Stuart
My copies of the last two books have only been read once.

While at one level it saddens me that things should go like that,
at another I have to admit that it's good to know that I am not the
only one to be so deeply disappointed with the last couple of books.

Quite so. Something said on a forum somewhere about Ron Weasley being
the seventh son of a seventh son reminded me of a young witch who was
the eighth daughter of an eighth son - and when I went to check this
out, I realised it came from a book lent out & never returned, and in
any case I'd only read some of the series... the Discworld books.

Consequently, I filled in the gaps buying at a discount, then settled
down to read the 36 books from "The Colour of Magic" to "Making Money",
and found it heartening how Terry Pratchett's writing *improves*.

Post by Troels Forchhammer

Post by Tennant Stuart
DVDs of the last three movies sit unwatched on the shelf.

With four children in the house -- at least two of whom are very
fond of the films -- my DVDs are not quite as unused as that ;-) On
the other hand, I thought that the last films did go some way
towards fixing a few of the faults (as I perceive it) of the books,
though they couldn't fix them all. I actually think that the story
as told in the _Half Blood Prince_ and the first of the _Deathly
Hallows_ films are considerable improvements on Rowling's story in
those two books...

LOL, I shall watch them. The problem is having a PVR which fills up
its hard drive with films & TV to be watched, taking priority over the
pile of DVDs - which *hopefully* will go down during the Olympics.


Tennant

[Steve Morrison]

Post by Troels Forchhammer
I do think that the books -- and the earlier books in particular --
do merit more attention than that, and that there are depths that
could be plored in search of meaning (also without trying to twist
the books to be sermons for Christianity). There is material in the
Potter books both for serious literary criticism (perhaps mainly
source studies, but still), and for the kind of fannish discussions
that are so ripe in Tolkien fandom (where are the Balrog wings of
Potterverse?).

I always meant to ask you and others if you had seen a site called
the Hog's Head?

http://thehogshead.org/

There people do look at the series from a literary-analysis
perspective (although there is a fair amount of viewing the books
as inherently Christian, and of the "literary alchemy" interpretation,
but that is by no means all the site is about). I've hesitated to
mention it in the past, because some people here had a, well,
strong reaction to anything connected with Christianity, and also
because last year the trolls started talking about the site. For the
record, I don't recognize any of them from the Hog's Head, whereas
I really am a regular there (and have seen at least one old a.f.h-p
regular there).

Post by Troels Forchhammer
There's a guy, Bruce Charlton, who has recently blogged about the
contrast between Rowling's surface 'political correctness' and the
underlying currents that seem to justify prejudice. While I don't
think he is entirely correct, there are definitely some valid points
http://notionclubpapers.blogspot.dk/2012/06/prejudice-in-harry-
potter-novels.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/7etl92c
In fact the house-elves might be the Balrog-wings of Potterverse
(though the discussion of house-elves would invite considerably more
substance than the ridiculous discussion of Balrog-wings) ;-)
Is the servitude of the house-elves an inherited (genetic) trait
(making Dobby a freak) or is it somehow imposed on them (presumably
by some clever magic)? And is it right to seek to free even the
house-elves who do not wish for that freedom?

I'd say it's necessary for anyone trying to help oppressed people to
*never stop listening* to the people themselves, or appoint yourself
as their representative against their will, even with benevolent intent.

[name]

That doesn't mean everything's over. WORK with it!

1) invite some friends, play a movie, make it an 'MST3K meets Hogwarts'
night - teams pick a DVD track and 'snark' 'til their heart's content.
If you're NOT able to raise some creatively snarky or mean-spirited
commentary at any point during any movie by now, then WHAT books have
YOU been reading?

(we're thinking of MP3-ing our commentaries - completely clean of movie
soundtrack so that sad-looking bitch can't drag us into court)

2) download the books and make one big textfile of them. MY reader has
a 'randomize' function in it and I find I get a lot more out of parts
by randomly picking a location and reading a few pages, just as a
distraction. call it 'A Clockwork Potter'.

Post by Judy Scobee
after many years & the last HP movie, ending a good story!
=Judy=

[B. Terry]

***@gmx.com