Discussion:
Underage magic
(too old to reply)
Welsh Dog
2007-06-26 22:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.

Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.

How come?

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://opds.org,
Kenny
2007-06-27 00:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...

Kenny
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 02:40:07 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...

... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Ron Hunter
2007-06-27 09:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware of
the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 09:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware of
the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
So why was Harry reprimanded when *Dobby* did magic?

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Ceil
2007-06-27 12:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware of
the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
So why was Harry reprimanded when *Dobby* did magic?
Welshdog
Dobby did magic in the presence of the Dursleys' muggle guests who were
entirely unaware of the wizarding world.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 00:37:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware of
the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
So why was Harry reprimanded when *Dobby* did magic?
Welshdog
Because when magic was done the only wand they could detect in the area
was Harry's, so he must have done it. This is the same kind of 'logic'
that sent Sirius to Azkaban without a trial.
Never mind checking the wand to see what the last spell was......
richard e white
2007-07-03 13:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware of
the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
So why was Harry reprimanded when *Dobby* did magic?
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Because there were other muggles there and he still wasn't to do magic out of
school. But the note is the normal responce. The later bit was an attempt to
railroad harry to get DD story out of fudges way.


--
Richard The Blind Typer.
Lets hear it for talking computers.
Lets go for talking i-pods!
bnick467
2007-06-27 12:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware
of the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
Sirius Kase
2007-06-27 16:56:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
Umbridge was out to get Harry on any charge that would stick. He was
being watched more closelly than most wizards and she wasn't going to
let a little fact like Dudley already knows get in the way.
Dragon Rider
2007-06-27 21:30:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
First, as other posters pointed out, Umbridge and the MoM were trying
to discredit Harry at the time.

Second, Harry conjured his Patronus not only in front of a Muggle, but
in a Muggle-inhabited vicinity, where he could have been seen by a lot
of magic-unaware bystanders.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 00:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware
of the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
Because when the want to railroad someone, they really don't care just
where the train is going, just so you are ON it.
Toon
2007-06-28 07:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware
of the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
Harry was set up by Umbridge, and railroaded the whole way. IE, the
MOM had no right to expel Harry and break his wand. That was DD's
sole discretion. All Umbridge needed was proof a Muggle was there, no
a Muggle who knows and is family and is excused.
richard e white
2007-07-03 13:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
The Dursleys don't qualify as they already are aware of the Wizarding
world. Petunia's sister was a witch, and Vernon is quite well aware
of the Wizarding world.
In short, they don't count.
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
Because fudge was looking for any excuse to get harry in trouble.
Didn't you catch that the trile wasn't the normal way the mom had been
handleing underage magic?


--
Richard The Blind Typer.
Lets hear it for talking computers.
Lets go for talking i-pods!
Mark Evans
2007-07-15 13:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Then why was Harry hauled into court for conjuring a Patronus in front
of Dudley? Dudley knew of the wizarding world, but still counted as a
Muggle.
The short answer is "politics". Fudge (and Umbridge)
wanted to discredit Harry, so they went for a big
show trial. Rather than a private hearing with
Madame Bones.
Richard Eney
2007-06-27 08:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
At the time, Dumbledore held all the high offices except that of
head of the MoM, and they wanted him for that job but he refused it.
He gave Hagrid special permission to use magic to get the letter to
Harry in book one, and that covered everything Hagrid did then.

Dumbledore's acknowledged ability, his important and influential
leadership positions, and his perks as head of Hogwarts (meaning
he must occasionally deal with muggle parents of magical students)
give him flexible powers, to say the least. Also, the Dursleys
are the guardians of a magical student, and are not unaware of
the magical world. The fact that they hate it makes no difference;
they are in the same category as Hermione's parents, who can visit
Diagon Alley with their daughter and see all sorts of magic without
any law being broken.

=Tamar
Chip Stobb
2007-07-01 14:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Eney
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
At the time, Dumbledore held all the high offices except that of
head of the MoM, and they wanted him for that job but he refused it.
He gave Hagrid special permission to use magic to get the letter to
Harry in book one, and that covered everything Hagrid did then.
Dumbledore's acknowledged ability, his important and influential
leadership positions, and his perks as head of Hogwarts (meaning
he must occasionally deal with muggle parents of magical students)
give him flexible powers, to say the least. Also, the Dursleys
are the guardians of a magical student, and are not unaware of
the magical world. The fact that they hate it makes no difference;
they are in the same category as Hermione's parents, who can visit
Diagon Alley with their daughter and see all sorts of magic without
any law being broken.
=Tamar
Possibly true at that point in time... but what about the instance
when the "Advance Guard" came to pick Harry up at the Dursley's? Yes,
there were no Muggles present, but as the MoM only knew that Harry was
there and not the OotP members, you would think that an owl would have
been dispatched on this occasion as well.


- Chip

"Ignorance is bliss, and we're in Nirvana." - C. Stobb
Toon
2007-07-02 11:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip Stobb
Possibly true at that point in time... but what about the instance
when the "Advance Guard" came to pick Harry up at the Dursley's? Yes,
there were no Muggles present, but as the MoM only knew that Harry was
there and not the OotP members, you would think that an owl would have
been dispatched on this occasion as well.
I'm sure DD or Shacklebolt or such knows someone in that division and
had them excused.
richard e white
2007-07-03 13:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chip Stobb
Post by Richard Eney
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
At the time, Dumbledore held all the high offices except that of
head of the MoM, and they wanted him for that job but he refused it.
He gave Hagrid special permission to use magic to get the letter to
Harry in book one, and that covered everything Hagrid did then.
Dumbledore's acknowledged ability, his important and influential
leadership positions, and his perks as head of Hogwarts (meaning
he must occasionally deal with muggle parents of magical students)
give him flexible powers, to say the least. Also, the Dursleys
are the guardians of a magical student, and are not unaware of
the magical world. The fact that they hate it makes no difference;
they are in the same category as Hermione's parents, who can visit
Diagon Alley with their daughter and see all sorts of magic without
any law being broken.
=Tamar
Possibly true at that point in time... but what about the instance
when the "Advance Guard" came to pick Harry up at the Dursley's? Yes,
there were no Muggles present, but as the MoM only knew that Harry was
there and not the OotP members, you would think that an owl would have
been dispatched on this occasion as well.
- Chip
"Ignorance is bliss, and we're in Nirvana." - C. Stobb
Again the mom would have been told that harry was being moved. They may even
have known that one of the auras where going to help move harry.
But even if they didn't know about the auras there the mom would have been told
about the move.


--
Richard The Blind Typer.
Lets hear it for talking computers.
Lets go for talking i-pods!
Welsh Dog
2007-07-03 20:37:17 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by richard e white
Post by Chip Stobb
Possibly true at that point in time... but what about the instance
when the "Advance Guard" came to pick Harry up at the Dursley's? Yes,
there were no Muggles present, but as the MoM only knew that Harry was
there and not the OotP members, you would think that an owl would have
been dispatched on this occasion as well.
Again the mom would have been told that harry was being moved. They may even
have known that one of the auras where going to help move harry.
But even if they didn't know about the auras there the mom would have been told
about the move.
When hey already knew (or suspected) that someone at the Ministry was
sending Dementors round to finish him off?? I think they'd have told
the MoM nothing at all about Harry's movements.

That would have been ok when Arthur went to the Dursleys to fetch
Harry via the Floo network... but this was something else again.

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
richard e white
2007-07-06 11:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
<snip>
Post by richard e white
Post by Chip Stobb
Possibly true at that point in time... but what about the instance
when the "Advance Guard" came to pick Harry up at the Dursley's? Yes,
there were no Muggles present, but as the MoM only knew that Harry was
there and not the OotP members, you would think that an owl would have
been dispatched on this occasion as well.
Again the mom would have been told that harry was being moved. They may even
have known that one of the auras where going to help move harry.
But even if they didn't know about the auras there the mom would have been told
about the move.
When hey already knew (or suspected) that someone at the Ministry was
sending Dementors round to finish him off?
No they didn't. The order knew V was back and making problems. They had more then
just the mom to suspect. But I think I didn't get the whole Idea across.
When I said they were informed I think it went more like this. Ron's dad stayed at
the mom to tell the people doing the scans for magic. The order knew it was likely
that one of the guard would do a spell. In fact they planned for mad eye to do
one. So it would be easy for Ron's dad to wait and tell them at the last moment
that some people where moveing harry. or DD might have done that himself.
This would mean that by the time Fudge or V learned of it Hary was already gone.
They couldn't head off the move and with DD or ron's dad telling them about adult
wizards picking harry up they wouldn't make a fuss as it would look to bad for them
and nothing to there ends would be done. This is the sort of thing that would be
easy to plan if you are starting everything off. But reacting to it is much harder.
Post by Welsh Dog
? I think they'd have told
the MoM nothing at all about Harry's movements.
That would have been ok when Arthur went to the Dursleys to fetch
Harry via the Floo network... but this was something else again.
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Telling them as it is being done makes it totaly leagle and nearly imposable to do
anything about it. By the time anyone in the mom got around to telling fudge, V or
the toad the move was most likely already over. The vary slowness of the mom would
prevent anything from going wrong.
The only way they could have interfeared was to have a grop of wizards and witches
on stand by to go straight to number fore. As Fudge was already setting plans for
the hearing it is doutfull that any one would bother with the stand by bit and tonks
and the others that work at the mom would have known of such a stand by group.


--
Richard The Blind Typer.
Lets hear it for talking computers.
Lets go for talking i-pods!
Toon
2007-07-07 12:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by richard e white
No they didn't. The order knew V was back and making problems. They had more then
just the mom to suspect. But I think I didn't get the whole Idea across.
When I said they were informed I think it went more like this. Ron's dad stayed at
the mom to tell the people doing the scans for magic. The order knew it was likely
that one of the guard would do a spell. In fact they planned for mad eye to do
one. So it would be easy for Ron's dad to wait and tell them at the last moment
that some people where moveing harry. or DD might have done that himself.
This would mean that by the time Fudge or V learned of it Hary was already gone.
They couldn't head off the move and with DD or ron's dad telling them about adult
wizards picking harry up they wouldn't make a fuss as it would look to bad for them
and nothing to there ends would be done. This is the sort of thing that would be
easy to plan if you are starting everything off. But reacting to it is much harder.
Pretty easy. Alarms go off, people go, hey, magic by Potter in
Muggleville. Arthur rushes in, and tells them DD ordered Harry
retrieved by several adult wizards after the Demntor attack. What are
lazy gov workers gonna do? Shrug it off, not file an investigation,
or bother alerting Fudge. They'd think Fudge knew, told Arthur to
tell them, and he arrived late to tell them before the alarms sounded.
Quick, simple, no muss no fuss. No complications like telling them in
advance. Most problem is people look at Arthur as a bit less reliable
and lazy arriving so late. And he can create any number of excuses
that'll be believed.
Toon
2007-06-27 12:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
Because the Durselys know about magic. Harry got in trouble for Dobby
doing magic near other muggles. Harry was railroaded in OOP, so
Dudley didn't count, a point Dd should have raised.

DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Ceil
2007-06-27 12:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
Because the Durselys know about magic. Harry got in trouble for Dobby
doing magic near other muggles. Harry was railroaded in OOP, so
Dudley didn't count, a point Dd should have raised.
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Woman at the orphanage.
Dragon Rider
2007-06-27 21:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ceil
Post by Toon
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Woman at the orphanage.
LOL, he didn�t do magic in front of her, he did magic TO her! (he even
keeps his wand under the table as he charms the piece of paper...)
PFG
2007-06-27 21:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ceil
Post by Toon
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Woman at the orphanage.
LOL, he didn´t do magic in front of her, he did magic TO her! (he even
keeps his wand under the table as he charms the piece of paper...)
But he was on an official MoM business at that time, so he didn't
break the legal rules, and he was trying to secure the future of
a very promissing young and orphaned wizard, so he didn't break his
own rules :-)
--
Pawel
Toon
2007-06-28 08:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ceil
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
Because the Durselys know about magic. Harry got in trouble for Dobby
doing magic near other muggles. Harry was railroaded in OOP, so
Dudley didn't count, a point Dd should have raised.
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Woman at the orphanage.
That was necessary and probably MOM approved for getting Muggle borns
in.
mueckelein
2007-06-27 22:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
Because the Durselys know about magic. Harry got in trouble for Dobby
doing magic near other muggles. Harry was railroaded in OOP, so
Dudley didn't count, a point Dd should have raised.
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Yes he has, but the muggle didn�t realise it! Remember the white sheet
of paper he gave to Mrs.? at the orphanage when he needed to convince
her to send Tom to Hogwarts?
mueckelein
2007-06-27 22:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
Because the Durselys know about magic. Harry got in trouble for Dobby
doing magic near other muggles. Harry was railroaded in OOP, so
Dudley didn't count, a point Dd should have raised.
DD has never done magic in front of unknowing muggles.
Yes he has, but the muggle didn´t realise it! Remember the white sheet
of paper he gave to Mrs.? at the orphanage when he needed to convince
her to send Tom to Hogwarts?
I just saw that this topic has turned up already, so forget about it.
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 22:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by mueckelein
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
<snip>
Post by mueckelein
I just saw that this topic has turned up already, so forget about it.
Just going over old theories while we're waiting... always waiting...
and counting :)

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
mueckelein
2007-06-27 22:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:30:24 GMT, "Kenny"
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
Surely as far as the MoM is concerned *any* magic performed in front
of Muggles is 'illegal'...
... which *now* makes me wonder why Hagrid... who after all 'strictly
speaking' isn't allowed to do *any* magic wasn't reprimanded not only
for using magic... but for using it in front of the Dursleys when he
went to deliver Harry's letter!!??
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!http://odps.org,
I wondered about noone noticing or minding Hagrids actions with his
wandbrella already months ago...
Timothy Bruening
2016-07-15 04:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenny
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
DD filed the appropriate paperwork with the MoM...
The MoM gave DD permission to bang the Dursleys in their heads with glasses of mead?
bnick467
2007-06-27 01:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...

1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).

2) If the MOM knows the details of every spell performed , it would
follow logically that they would be aware when an Unforgivable Curse was
performed, and exactly where. They would have had some indication that
the Killing Curse and the Cruciatus Curse were performed in the
graveyard in Little Hangleton when LV was reincarnated. Since they had
no knowledge of wizards/witches in the area, you would think they would
investigate, or at the very least be able to check Harry's story to see
if what he said was true. (As per Dumbledore, the Ministry knew which
spell/charm/hex/curse was performed, just not who performed it. The only
time they sent notices was when their records indicated that only an
underage wizard was in the area when the spell was performed).

Now for the interesting part. Harry now knows that if he's in the
company of older wizards, he can perform magic without worry. Could this
come into play before his birthday?
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 02:52:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!

Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??

The public has a right to know :D

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Sirius Kase
2007-06-27 17:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
Post by Welsh Dog
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!http://odps.org,
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 20:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.

And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!

And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
mueckelein
2007-06-27 22:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.
And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!http://odps.org,
You forgot to mention that Mundungus did not keep watch all alone for
weeks all day long. They changed guards! All these guards must have
apparated or come by floo - powder into Mrs. Figgs house. That is
magic, too, and someone should have realised that there was someone
doing magic regularely for weeks in the house of a Squib, where years
before very little had occured. I´m not speaking of the invisibility
cloak that is magical, too...
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 00:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.
And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
Welshdog
Hagrid's use of magic was covered by Dumbledore's permission. He WAS
head of the Wizengamot, which is the advisory body to the MOM. As for
magic other adult wizards perform near Harry, that is tracked by their
registered WANDS. Since house elves don't use wands, the magic was
attributed to Harry.
Paracelsus
2007-06-28 01:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.
And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
Welshdog
Hagrid's use of magic was covered by Dumbledore's permission. He WAS
head of the Wizengamot, which is the advisory body to the MOM. As for
magic other adult wizards perform near Harry, that is tracked by their
registered WANDS. Since house elves don't use wands, the magic was
attributed to Harry.
There is probably a provisio in the statute of secrecy that permits
representatives of Hogwarts who are assigned to contact the Muggle
parents or guardians of prospective students may perform some magic for
demonstration purposes. (Otherwise how would anyone ever believe them?)
The same rule may apply when Dumbledore performs magic in front of the
Dursleys in HPB.

The only magic that Mundungus performs is Apparation which may be
covered by a different set of rules. (eg. You can do it anywhere as long
as no one sees you.)

I don't know about the point about magic being tracked to wands. In one
of the books someone told Harry that the Ministry can track where magic
is performed but not who performed it. It relies on magical parents to
enforce the rules in their own home. The Ministry probably keeps an
exceptionally close watch on Harry.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 08:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paracelsus
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Nice catch!!
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.
And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
Welshdog
Hagrid's use of magic was covered by Dumbledore's permission. He WAS
head of the Wizengamot, which is the advisory body to the MOM. As for
magic other adult wizards perform near Harry, that is tracked by their
registered WANDS. Since house elves don't use wands, the magic was
attributed to Harry.
There is probably a provisio in the statute of secrecy that permits
representatives of Hogwarts who are assigned to contact the Muggle
parents or guardians of prospective students may perform some magic for
demonstration purposes. (Otherwise how would anyone ever believe them?)
The same rule may apply when Dumbledore performs magic in front of the
Dursleys in HPB.
The only magic that Mundungus performs is Apparation which may be
covered by a different set of rules. (eg. You can do it anywhere as long
as no one sees you.)
I don't know about the point about magic being tracked to wands. In one
of the books someone told Harry that the Ministry can track where magic
is performed but not who performed it. It relies on magical parents to
enforce the rules in their own home. The Ministry probably keeps an
exceptionally close watch on Harry.
It is likely that Dumbledore is well aware of the provisions of the
statute, given that he remarks that he 'helped write many of them'.
Toon
2007-06-29 07:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Paracelsus
There is probably a provisio in the statute of secrecy that permits
representatives of Hogwarts who are assigned to contact the Muggle
parents or guardians of prospective students may perform some magic for
demonstration purposes. (Otherwise how would anyone ever believe them?)
The same rule may apply when Dumbledore performs magic in front of the
Dursleys in HPB.
The only magic that Mundungus performs is Apparation which may be
covered by a different set of rules. (eg. You can do it anywhere as long
as no one sees you.)
I don't know about the point about magic being tracked to wands. In one
of the books someone told Harry that the Ministry can track where magic
is performed but not who performed it. It relies on magical parents to
enforce the rules in their own home. The Ministry probably keeps an
exceptionally close watch on Harry.
It is likely that Dumbledore is well aware of the provisions of the
statute, given that he remarks that he 'helped write many of them'.
It'd be funny if this was one of the few he didn't help write.
Welsh Dog
2007-06-28 01:53:56 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
Hagrid's use of magic was covered by Dumbledore's permission. He WAS
head of the Wizengamot, which is the advisory body to the MOM. As for
magic other adult wizards perform near Harry, that is tracked by their
registered WANDS. Since house elves don't use wands, the magic was
attributed to Harry.
How do you know it's the *wand* that is tracked not the wizard using
it? Besides which... the cake was levitated without the use of a
wand... !!! :)

Like I said this is very inconsistent.

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Toon
2007-06-28 08:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
<snip>
Post by Ron Hunter
Hagrid's use of magic was covered by Dumbledore's permission. He WAS
head of the Wizengamot, which is the advisory body to the MOM. As for
magic other adult wizards perform near Harry, that is tracked by their
registered WANDS. Since house elves don't use wands, the magic was
attributed to Harry.
How do you know it's the *wand* that is tracked not the wizard using
it? Besides which... the cake was levitated without the use of a
wand... !!! :)
Which is why they blamed Harry. No wand, just magic. Who do they
know is there that can do magic? Harry. Erego, Harry did that magic.
Toon
2007-06-28 08:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Drusilla
2007-06-28 13:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
Sirius Kase
2007-06-28 14:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Drusilla
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 20:48:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Drusilla
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
Well, in the case of Dursley's, both Vernon and Petunia already KNEW
about the magical world since they both knew James and Lily. It would
not make any sense to legislate against showing magic to those who
already KNEW about it.
mueckelein
2007-06-28 22:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Drusilla
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
Well, in the case of Dursley's, both Vernon and Petunia already KNEW
about the magical world since they both knew James and Lily. It would
not make any sense to legislate against showing magic to those who
already KNEW about it.
Well, Dudley was there and he didn�t know!
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 23:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Drusilla
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
Well, in the case of Dursley's, both Vernon and Petunia already KNEW
about the magical world since they both knew James and Lily. It would
not make any sense to legislate against showing magic to those who
already KNEW about it.
Well, Dudley was there and he didn´t know!
Yes, he has known since Harry first went to Hogwarts.
mueckelein
2007-06-28 22:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Drusilla
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
A shack in the middle of nowhere with two Muggls who knew.
Perhaps that's the answer. It doesn't matter while the muggles are aware
of the magical word.
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
They need to do that with all muggleborn wizards and witches. Or do
you think Dean�s parents had said" Oh, sure, he�s a wizard. We�ll let
him go with you to that school called Hogwarts!" to a funny guy with a
plumcoloured suit and a long white beard, who suddenly appears on the
doorstep. Dean was meant to go to Eton. Not everyone has got that
chance and I assume Hermione had been quite good at school, too,
before she came to Hogwarts.
Richard Eney
2007-06-30 04:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by mueckelein
Post by Sirius Kase
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
They need to do that with all muggleborn wizards and witches. Or do
you think DeanŽs parents had said" Oh, sure, heŽs a wizard. WeŽll let
him go with you to that school called Hogwarts!" to a funny guy with a
plumcoloured suit and a long white beard, who suddenly appears on the
doorstep. Dean was meant to go to Eton. Not everyone has got that
chance and I assume Hermione had been quite good at school, too,
before she came to Hogwarts.
Dean? He does have muggle family, but I though the Eton-bound one
was a Hufflepuff. Ernie?

=Tamar
Sirius Kase
2007-06-30 05:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Eney
Post by mueckelein
Post by Sirius Kase
There appears to be an exception for persuading muggles to allow
wizards in their care to attend Hogwarts. We saw it with Harry and we
also saw it with Tom. Outside of the books, Rowling said that it
isn't unusual for a wizard to visit the families of muggleborns and
persuade them.
They need to do that with all muggleborn wizards and witches. Or do
you think Dean´s parents had said" Oh, sure, he´s a wizard. We´ll let
him go with you to that school called Hogwarts!" to a funny guy with a
plumcoloured suit and a long white beard, who suddenly appears on the
doorstep. Dean was meant to go to Eton. Not everyone has got that
chance and I assume Hermione had been quite good at school, too,
before she came to Hogwarts.
Dean? He does have muggle family, but I though the Eton-bound one
was a Hufflepuff. Ernie?
=Tamar
no, ernie is a pureblood. It was Justin, the one Ernie expected Harry
to attack. Remember, he was supposed to be attacking muggleborns.
Sirius Kase
2007-06-28 14:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Sirius Kase
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got done over because *Dobby* used a hover charm. Why didn't the
same thing happen when someone apparated virtually outside the house??
The public has a right to know :D
Because they were watching Harry, not Dung. Also, they may have lured
Dung away in order to set Harry up for the dementers.
If they'd been watching Harry they'd have known he wasn't the one
levitating the pudding. It was the house they were watching so *any*
magic done there should have set off the alarms.
I was referring to the incident in OotP, when we know Umbridge was
having Harry watched so she could haul him into kangaroo court. Dung
had nothing to do with a pudding. The only pudding incident occurred
in CoS, well before Umbridge would have been out to get Harry, and
survelleince of Harry would have been lighter. It is not at all
inconsistent with reality that a troublesome 15 year old is watched
more closely than a 12 year old who isn't a public nuisance.
Post by Welsh Dog
And Mundungus did it twice... once while Harry was very close to him!
And there's Hagrid at the shack who 'strictly speaking' wasn't
supposed to do magic... yet made a fire with his umbrella.
He himself said he had special permission for the purpose of getting
Harry to come to Hogwarts.
Post by Welsh Dog
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!http://odps.org,
Ron Hunter
2007-06-27 09:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
2) If the MOM knows the details of every spell performed , it would
follow logically that they would be aware when an Unforgivable Curse was
performed, and exactly where. They would have had some indication that
the Killing Curse and the Cruciatus Curse were performed in the
graveyard in Little Hangleton when LV was reincarnated. Since they had
no knowledge of wizards/witches in the area, you would think they would
investigate, or at the very least be able to check Harry's story to see
if what he said was true. (As per Dumbledore, the Ministry knew which
spell/charm/hex/curse was performed, just not who performed it. The only
time they sent notices was when their records indicated that only an
underage wizard was in the area when the spell was performed).
Now for the interesting part. Harry now knows that if he's in the
company of older wizards, he can perform magic without worry. Could this
come into play before his birthday?
It might, but since he is supposed to spend most of that time at the
Dursley's, it won't help him much.
Toon
2007-06-27 12:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by bnick467
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Not only that but...
1) Mundungus disapparated just moments before. (And if anyone argues
that the Ministry was aware of ole' Dung's position, this was when Order
members were persona non grata with the MOM. They would not have been
notified that the Order was in the area keeping watch on Harry).
Apping might not register.
Post by bnick467
2) If the MOM knows the details of every spell performed , it would
follow logically that they would be aware when an Unforgivable Curse was
performed, and exactly where. They would have had some indication that
the Killing Curse and the Cruciatus Curse were performed in the
graveyard in Little Hangleton when LV was reincarnated. Since they had
no knowledge of wizards/witches in the area, you would think they would
investigate, or at the very least be able to check Harry's story to see
if what he said was true. (As per Dumbledore, the Ministry knew which
spell/charm/hex/curse was performed, just not who performed it. The only
time they sent notices was when their records indicated that only an
underage wizard was in the area when the spell was performed).
Harry was also being closely monitored by the MOM at his home.
Don Reeves
2007-06-27 06:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.

Don Reeves
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 06:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
This is a bureaucracy. To them *every* rule is important no mater how
pointlessly trivial. Been there - done that :(

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Richard Eney
2007-06-27 08:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
This is a bureaucracy. To them *every* rule is important no matter how
pointlessly trivial. Been there - done that :(
You put your finger on it: it's a bureaucracy. A corrupt one.
Fudge overrode the rules when Harry blew up his aunt, because it was
convenient for him. Slughorn is a master at working the system.
Even Arthur Weasley will fix a ticket in return for a favor.

The wizard bureaucracy runs on the old patronage system. Petty rules
are only enforced if you don't have influence. Powerless students? sure,
throw the book at them. Rich wizards? rules, what rules? The greatest
wizard of the century? They may sputter a bit, but DD never gets hit
with a fine, and removing him from his political connections didn't
last, either. Look at all the times he basically told the ministry
to shove it, and after all the fuss was over, he was never bothered
about little things like resisting arrest, putting memory charms on
people (yeah, it was someone else but they'd have blamed DD),
vanishing and locking the office behind him to keep out the government-
appointed successor, etc.

=Tamar
DaveD
2007-06-27 23:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
This is a bureaucracy. To them *every* rule is important no mater how
pointlessly trivial. Been there - done that :(
Welshdog
Not quite - Umbridge admits she set the demontors on Harry to get him
expelled (though she doesn't really explain why it was *so* important to do
that) so I'm guessing every rule is important *when they want it to be*, ie
they use discretion in interpreting breaches of the decree against underage
magic, and how to respond to them.

In this case, Umbridge wanted Harry out so prosecuted him, whereas they'd
probably have used their discretion and ignored the many other cases that
occur with other people, or at least dealt with it more informally as with
Harry blowing up his aunt in PoA (but unlike Dobby's actions in CoS).

DaveD
Don Reeves
2007-06-28 02:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
This is a bureaucracy. To them *every* rule is important no mater how
pointlessly trivial. Been there - done that :(
Welshdog
And THIS bureaucracy was trying to recruit Harry for their propaganda
needs.

Don Reeves
mueckelein
2007-06-27 22:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
Don Reeves
Who died at the beginning of OotP???
I think the missing interfering of the MoM supports my theory that
there is a traitor in the order who gave information to Umbridge! She
did not interfere because she knew about the guarding and was waiting
for Mundungus to dissapear. She even probably lured him away with the
cauldrons!
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 00:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by mueckelein
Post by Don Reeves
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
There's been a change of administration at the Ministry. And they're pretty
busy with people dying.
Don Reeves
Who died at the beginning of OotP???
I think the missing interfering of the MoM supports my theory that
there is a traitor in the order who gave information to Umbridge! She
did not interfere because she knew about the guarding and was waiting
for Mundungus to dissapear. She even probably lured him away with the
cauldrons!
I vote for Dung himself.
Edwin
2007-06-27 06:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl
arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Hermione had performed some magic before her parents before she went to
Hogwarts.
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 06:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edwin
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl
arrives.
How come?
Hermione had performed some magic before her parents before she went to
Hogwarts.
That was different tho.... we know they weren't that strict on people
prior to entry to the school.

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
Ron Hunter
2007-06-27 09:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edwin
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl
arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Hermione had performed some magic before her parents before she went to
Hogwarts.
Accidental magic also doesn't count as muggles just fail to recognize it
for what it is. Also, magic done without a wand isn't registered by the
MOM unless it is massive in nature.
Timothy Bruening
2016-07-15 04:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Edwin
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys...
also Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each
time an owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Hermione had performed some magic before her parents before she went to
Hogwarts.
Lilly Evans was transforming teacups on her summer breaks from Hogwarts! Why no warning messages from the MoM?
Ron Hunter
2007-06-27 09:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
Welsh Dog
2007-06-27 09:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
Well... that was absolutely *no* explanation whatever regarding why
Harry wasn't reprimanded for illegal use of magic so 'duh' yourself!

Dobby is an elf and Harry got the blame for *him* doing magic. We
were told thy can't differentiate between the source of magic, just
that it was done in violation of regulations.

Also, remember that Mundungus apparated *twice* from directly outside
Harry's house... indeed once *when Harry was in the garden* so very
close to where he left!!

why didn't the MoM send an owl then either?

There are many inconsistencies in this thread of the plot.

Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://odps.org,
DaveD
2007-06-27 23:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
Well... that was absolutely *no* explanation whatever regarding why
Harry wasn't reprimanded for illegal use of magic so 'duh' yourself!
Dobby is an elf and Harry got the blame for *him* doing magic. We
were told thy can't differentiate between the source of magic, just
that it was done in violation of regulations.
Also, remember that Mundungus apparated *twice* from directly outside
Harry's house... indeed once *when Harry was in the garden* so very
close to where he left!!
why didn't the MoM send an owl then either?
There are many inconsistencies in this thread of the plot.
Welshdog
Yup! I suspect it's one of those areas JKR didn't particularly think through
that well - she was busy thinking through lots of other areas of the plot
:)

DaveD
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 00:39:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
Well... that was absolutely *no* explanation whatever regarding why
Harry wasn't reprimanded for illegal use of magic so 'duh' yourself!
Dobby is an elf and Harry got the blame for *him* doing magic. We
were told thy can't differentiate between the source of magic, just
that it was done in violation of regulations.
Also, remember that Mundungus apparated *twice* from directly outside
Harry's house... indeed once *when Harry was in the garden* so very
close to where he left!!
why didn't the MoM send an owl then either?
There are many inconsistencies in this thread of the plot.
Welshdog
Mundungus Is a fully qualified wizard, with a registered wand, so his
magic can easily be identified. Of course, being the type of person he
is, he probably has an unregistered one as well.. Grin.
Toon
2007-06-28 07:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
Well... that was absolutely *no* explanation whatever regarding why
Harry wasn't reprimanded for illegal use of magic so 'duh' yourself!
Dobby is an elf and Harry got the blame for *him* doing magic. We
were told thy can't differentiate between the source of magic, just
that it was done in violation of regulations.
Also, remember that Mundungus apparated *twice* from directly outside
Harry's house... indeed once *when Harry was in the garden* so very
close to where he left!!
why didn't the MoM send an owl then either?
There are many inconsistencies in this thread of the plot.
Welshdog
Mundungus Is a fully qualified wizard, with a registered wand, so his
magic can easily be identified. Of course, being the type of person he
is, he probably has an unregistered one as well.. Grin.
Two or three, I suspect. Con artists have many ID's, and he seems the
con artistry type as well as thief. Best to have a few spare wands.
Timothy Bruening
2016-07-15 04:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Because Dumbledore has a registered wand, and is quite a bit older than 16.
duh!
He registered his Elder Wand, the wand known as the Deathstick, the Wand of Destiny, and one of the infamous Deatly Hallows?
PFG
2007-06-27 10:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Same with Arthur in GoF, or with Tonks packing Harry's stuff in OotP.

But - Harry is being watched by MoM. If they register an adult wizard or
witch at the premises, they assume that it is this person who does the magic.
They didn't bother to notice Dobby, and Harry *did* produce the Patronus.
--
Paweł
otumaniony wykształciuch
Toon
2007-06-27 11:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Clell Harmon
2007-06-28 01:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the elder's
head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is supposedly a fairly
powerful wizard isn't he?
Toon
2007-06-28 08:04:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the elder's
head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is supposedly a fairly
powerful wizard isn't he?
Yes, but Voldermort's boat magic almost certainly didn't accept Elf
magic as good.

We also have one instance of a powerful Elf, angry, and now free from
his master. Let me know when we see another Elf or two do the same
while calm and bound.
Clell Harmon
2007-06-29 01:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the elder's
head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is supposedly a fairly
powerful wizard isn't he?
Yes, but Voldermort's boat magic almost certainly didn't accept Elf
magic as good.
Boat magic? Tom has a boat? And it doesn't like elves? Is there
anything worse than an uppity boat?

Ok, bad joke, but I have no idea what you were trying to say there.
Post by Toon
We also have one instance of a powerful Elf, angry, and now free from
his master. Let me know when we see another Elf or two do the same
while calm and bound.
We have seen a Three elves in canon (ignoring the bit players cleaning
Hogwartz). One hero worshipful, now) free and happy, one slipping into
depression, (now) free and miserable, and One insane, bonded, and
spiteful. IF (and I believe it to be a large if) Dobby is the only one
capable of his displayed power level, that means 1/3rd of the available
sample of elves are powerful enough to be dangerous, a higher percentage
than displayed by the wizard folk we've seen. Sure it's possible that
he have Dobbymort here, but it seems unlikely... No one seemed
surprised that an elf could do what Dobby did, just that he actually did
it.
Toon
2007-06-29 07:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Yes, but Voldermort's boat magic almost certainly didn't accept Elf
magic as good.
Boat magic? Tom has a boat? And it doesn't like elves? Is there
anything worse than an uppity boat?
Ok, bad joke, but I have no idea what you were trying to say there.
To cross the lake in the cave with the LOCKET Horcrux, a boat was
used, designed to ferry but one person across. Harry, as a kid,
wasn't counted as even a person and rode with DD. If RAB is Regalus,
Kreacher almost certainly was with him, in the boat, unaffected by the
maximum occupancy of one rule.
Clell Harmon
2007-06-30 01:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Yes, but Voldermort's boat magic almost certainly didn't accept Elf
magic as good.
Boat magic? Tom has a boat? And it doesn't like elves? Is there
anything worse than an uppity boat?
Ok, bad joke, but I have no idea what you were trying to say there.
To cross the lake in the cave with the LOCKET Horcrux, a boat was
used, designed to ferry but one person across. Harry, as a kid,
wasn't counted as even a person and rode with DD. If RAB is Regalus,
Kreacher almost certainly was with him, in the boat, unaffected by the
maximum occupancy of one rule.
Ah, the light dawns. Thanks.

Assuming that Kreacher made the assist (an extremely logical
assumption, but yet to be stated in canon) all the boat did was not
detect Kreacher as a wizard... which he isn't. However this doesn't
mean that he is 'weak'. The fluid in the basin slapped the crap out of
Dumbledor, THE major league powerhouse of the light, yet (assuming the
theory is correct) lacking any evidence of medical treatment, Kreacher
came back on his own. I mean can you picture a Deatheater of the level
to be trusted with knowledge of Horocruxes (even one on the cusp of
rebellion) being all touchy feely with the health of his bond slave?

Come to think about it, if Kreacher DID drink the fluid in the basin,
it would go a long way in explaining his psychosis...
Drusilla
2007-06-30 04:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Yes, but Voldermort's boat magic almost certainly didn't accept Elf
magic as good.
Boat magic? Tom has a boat? And it doesn't like elves? Is
there anything worse than an uppity boat?
Ok, bad joke, but I have no idea what you were trying to say there.
To cross the lake in the cave with the LOCKET Horcrux, a boat was
used, designed to ferry but one person across. Harry, as a kid,
wasn't counted as even a person and rode with DD. If RAB is Regalus,
Kreacher almost certainly was with him, in the boat, unaffected by the
maximum occupancy of one rule.
Ah, the light dawns. Thanks.
Assuming that Kreacher made the assist (an extremely logical
assumption, but yet to be stated in canon) all the boat did was not
detect Kreacher as a wizard... which he isn't. However this doesn't
mean that he is 'weak'.
Definitely. The boat didn't detect Harry either and he's not weak either.

The fluid in the basin slapped the crap out of
Post by Clell Harmon
Dumbledor, THE major league powerhouse of the light, yet (assuming the
theory is correct) lacking any evidence of medical treatment, Kreacher
came back on his own. I mean can you picture a Deatheater of the level
to be trusted with knowledge of Horocruxes (even one on the cusp of
rebellion) being all touchy feely with the health of his bond slave?
RAB could have been the one drinking the potion and Kreacher was there
to help him.
Post by Clell Harmon
Come to think about it, if Kreacher DID drink the fluid in the
basin, it would go a long way in explaining his psychosis...
Sirius said he always had been like that.
Toon
2007-06-30 07:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
lacking any evidence of medical treatment, Kreacher
came back on his own.
Lackign nay evidence, we can only use what we know of the potions
effects. Which do not bode well for Kreacher.
Post by Clell Harmon
I mean can you picture a Deatheater of the level
to be trusted with knowledge of Horocruxes (even one on the cusp of
rebellion) being all touchy feely with the health of his bond slave?
No, but I'm sure some slashers can.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-28 08:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the elder's
head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is supposedly a fairly
powerful wizard isn't he?
Elf magic is different, witness the fact that they seem able to pop in
and out even in Hogwarts. It is highly unlikely that Malfoy ever
experienced any offensive Elf magic, and was not expecting it. In
short, he was 'blind sided' by it.
Couldn't have have happened to a better candidate!
Clell Harmon
2007-06-29 01:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the
elder's head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is supposedly
a fairly powerful wizard isn't he?
Elf magic is different, witness the fact that they seem able to pop in
and out even in Hogwarts. It is highly unlikely that Malfoy ever
experienced any offensive Elf magic, and was not expecting it. In
short, he was 'blind sided' by it.
I have no problem with the idea that elven magic is different, nor that
Dobby took Malfoy by surprise. What I dispute is the idea that elven
magic is weak, based on what we have been shown in the books. Plus weak
magic couldn't possibly make such great cookies.
Post by Ron Hunter
Couldn't have have happened to a better candidate!
Oh I agree there.
Toon
2007-06-29 07:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Plus weak
magic couldn't possibly make such great cookies.
Imagine how tasty powerful magic would make them.
Clell Harmon
2007-06-30 01:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Toon
Post by Clell Harmon
Plus weak
magic couldn't possibly make such great cookies.
Imagine how tasty powerful magic would make them.
You think Dobby can lay a smack down, you really don't want to mess
with Keebler.
Toon
2007-06-30 07:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Clell Harmon
Plus weak
magic couldn't possibly make such great cookies.
Imagine how tasty powerful magic would make them.
You think Dobby can lay a smack down, you really don't want to mess
with Keebler.
Hey do have wands, after all. And magic ovens.
Ron Hunter
2007-06-29 09:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Ron Hunter
Post by Clell Harmon
Post by Toon
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Um, DD's not underage? Elevs and kids seem to rank as less than
powerful, so they're grouped similarly. Besides, by the time he show
sup, V's back, DD and the MOM aren't on such outs, and he probably got
the monitoring system shut off.
Elves less powerful? Dobby layed a smack upside Malfoy the
elder's head and dropped him like a bad habit... Lucius is
supposedly a fairly powerful wizard isn't he?
Elf magic is different, witness the fact that they seem able to pop in
and out even in Hogwarts. It is highly unlikely that Malfoy ever
experienced any offensive Elf magic, and was not expecting it. In
short, he was 'blind sided' by it.
I have no problem with the idea that elven magic is different, nor
that Dobby took Malfoy by surprise. What I dispute is the idea that
elven magic is weak, based on what we have been shown in the books.
Plus weak magic couldn't possibly make such great cookies.
Post by Ron Hunter
Couldn't have have happened to a better candidate!
Oh I agree there.
I certainly never meant to imply that Elf magic was weak. Dobby manages
to transport heavy trunks from place to place quickly, and easily, and
to clean rooms when needed, and to appear any time Harry calls his name,
even within Hogwarts, and OOTP Headquarters. How many wizards can do
this type of thing?
Toon
2007-06-30 07:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Hunter
I certainly never meant to imply that Elf magic was weak. Dobby manages
to transport heavy trunks from place to place quickly, and easily, and
to clean rooms when needed, and to appear any time Harry calls his name,
even within Hogwarts, and OOTP Headquarters. How many wizards can do
this type of thing?
The twins transport a trunk and nearly kill Ginny, and app all over
the place. Thye seem to clean their room up fast after their
experiments fail.
Matt Clara
2007-06-27 15:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Just another JKR inconsistency, I'll warrant. Can't imagine it coming up in
the final book.

--
www.mattclara.com
Drusilla
2007-06-27 16:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Clara
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Just another JKR inconsistency, I'll warrant. Can't imagine it coming up in
the final book.
Wasn't the Ministry aware that he was going there? I think, but I can't
remember, that Scrimgeour wanted to talk Harry. Probably DD told him not
to look for him at home as he would take him to the Burrow.
Joe Bednorz
2007-06-27 16:44:20 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:20:37 -0500, Drusilla wrote in
Post by Drusilla
Post by Matt Clara
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
Just another JKR inconsistency, I'll warrant. Can't imagine it coming up in
the final book.
Wasn't the Ministry aware that he was going there? I think, but I can't
remember, that Scrimgeour wanted to talk Harry. Probably DD told him not
to look for him at home as he would take him to the Burrow.
DD was probably stealthed.
--
Links to Gigabytes of free books on line, emphasis on SF:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jbednorz/Free/>
All the Best,
Joe Bednorz
richard e white
2007-07-03 13:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Welsh Dog
Harry got it in the neck when Dobby did magic at the Dursleys... also
Harry was all bar expelled when he produced a patronus. Each time an
owl arrived within minutes to tell him off.
Dumbledore turns up and does all sorts of magic... but no owl arrives.
How come?
Welshdog
--
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang, and leave *your* favourites!
http://opds.org,
Because he told the mom that he would be showing up to get harry.


--
Richard The Blind Typer.
Lets hear it for talking computers.
Lets go for talking i-pods!
Bobo Bonobo®
2007-07-06 14:18:18 UTC
Permalink
But they are allowed to drink beer.

--Bryan
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...