Sorting hat is flawed ?

[Riaan]

The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Brave Snape might have been... though I'm not at all convinced of
that... good - not at all.

Once Snape had gone to Dumbledore to beg him to hide Lily his fate was
sealed. If Voldemort ever *suspected* his CIC had gone to his worst
enemy and asked for help he'd have been dead before his 'abnormally
large nose' hit the dirt!!

He knew that DD only needed to say the word and he'd be gone. After
he'd lost control that once and gone for help... he was in DD's
pocket.

He had no choice but play his part as DD said... is this bravery?? Or
just the actions of a pragmatist??

As for Pettigrew... well he * was* in the wrong house.

DD said to Snape they sorted too young. :)

Welshdog

[Shiral]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Brave Snape might have been... though I'm not at all convinced of
that... good - not at all.
Once Snape had gone to Dumbledore to beg him to hide Lily his fate was
sealed. If Voldemort ever *suspected* his CIC had gone to his worst
enemy and asked for help he'd have been dead before his 'abnormally
large nose' hit the dirt!!
He knew that DD only needed to say the word and he'd be gone. After
he'd lost control that once and gone for help... he was in DD's
pocket.
He had no choice but play his part as DD said... is this bravery?? Or
just the actions of a pragmatist??
As for Pettigrew... well he * was* in the wrong house.
DD said to Snape they sorted too young. :)
Welshdog
--
Australian Opinionhttp://australianopinion.com
News and views... for people like youse!!

Percy was a Gryffindor too. And then he turned his back on his family
and acted like a complete jerk until nearly the end. I like him a
little better for recognizing his mistake and fighting on the
Hogwarts side in the final battle. But
Spoiler Space JUST in case!
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of all the Weasleys, I really wish it had been Percy who died and not
Fred! I'm glad Charlie survived. Underused though he was, I like
him.

Melissa

[lily]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.

[Richard Eney]

Post by lily

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.

He had no idea that Lily was pregnant. At the time of the prophecy,
to him it was just some unknown kid he'd never know or care about.

=Tamar

[Welsh Dog]

Post by lily

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.

Until Voldemort told him what he intended to do... i.e. kill Harry...
Snape had not realised Lily would be in the line of fire. Once he did
know it the die had been cast and it was all set in motion.

Welshdog

[Tim Bruening]

Post by lily

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.

I think that Snape didn't realize that Voldemort would go after the Potters until
AFTER he had told Voldemort about the prophecy.

[Sue H]

Post by lily

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.

The prophecy was already known and everyone knew there was a prophcey
for everyone. so he'd of sought it out anyway; regardless of when
he'd of known about it or who had information about it. He had
insiders in the ministry working for him

[Louis Epstein]

Sue H <***@cox.net> wrote:
: On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:15:12 -0700, lily <***@hotmail.com>
: wrote:
:
:>On Jul 25, 1:48 pm, "Riaan" <***@is.co.za> wrote:
:>> The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
:>> Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
:>> and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
:>> one who acted more (Slytherin like)
:>
:>I don't understand, Since Snape was the eavesdropper, he could just
:>pretend there's no prophecy and protected Lily this way.
:
: The prophecy was already known and everyone knew there was a prophcey
: for everyone. so he'd of sought it out anyway; regardless of when
: he'd of known about it or who had information about it. He had
: insiders in the ministry working for him

Er...doesn't the whole denouement of ORDER rest on the fact that
nobody but Harry was allowed access to the Ministry's copy of the
prophecy despite the DEs' inside connections?

And do we know when Dumbledore gave the Ministry a copy?
(He and Snape were initially the only people who knew a prophecy
had been made,as Trelawney had no recollection of making it).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[santosh]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by santosh

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

Harry went into Gryffindor because he asked to. If choice is the
criterion... then how would the school cope if *all* the students
chose Gryffindor?? :)

Usually there must be nothing like 'choice' involved. Harry had the
choice because he had a unique psychological make-up.

Welshdog

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by santosh

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

Harry went into Gryffindor because he asked to. If choice is the
criterion... then how would the school cope if *all* the students
chose Gryffindor?? :)

I find it unlikely that ALL the students would choose Gryffindor. After all, the
children of the DEs chose Slytherin.

[Welsh Dog]

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:58:40 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by santosh

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

Harry went into Gryffindor because he asked to. If choice is the
criterion... then how would the school cope if *all* the students
chose Gryffindor?? :)

I find it unlikely that ALL the students would choose Gryffindor. After all, the
children of the DEs chose Slytherin.

Ok... if... now that Gryffindor has become the preeminent house... one
years intake all decide they all want to emulate their hero and join
Gryffindor?

Welshdog

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:58:40 -0700, Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by santosh

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

Harry went into Gryffindor because he asked to. If choice is the
criterion... then how would the school cope if *all* the students
chose Gryffindor?? :)

I find it unlikely that ALL the students would choose Gryffindor. After all, the
children of the DEs chose Slytherin.

Ok... if... now that Gryffindor has become the preeminent house... one
years intake all decide they all want to emulate their hero and join
Gryffindor?

I look forward to a fanfic about such a situation!

[Sue H]

Ok, true but I noticed JK made a point of something.... when Fred died
ect; everyone was sitting in the Great Hall all mixed together... she
made a point of pointing out that slytherins sat with the others etc.
Not grouped into cliques. However, later on, the houses were reformed
when Harry's kids etc went to school.

What I think is this... try as we like to have a world where everyone
is equal and race, religion and sex etc are not important, but that we
as humans are, I think it can never happen and things go in cycles
(balance of the Jedi etc); people will fall back into old habits and
evil does tend to reform. You can never rid yourself of it. So
later, as the time goes on and the story of Voldemort passes to
another generation, they just don't care as much and each generation
it's less and less so some kids won't care....

Post by Welsh Dog
Ok... if... now that Gryffindor has become the preeminent house... one
years intake all decide they all want to emulate their hero and join
Gryffindor?
Welshdog

[Rich Travsky]

Post by Sue H
Ok, true but I noticed JK made a point of something.... when Fred died
ect; everyone was sitting in the Great Hall all mixed together... she
made a point of pointing out that slytherins sat with the others etc.
Not grouped into cliques. However, later on, the houses were reformed
when Harry's kids etc went to school.
What I think is this... try as we like to have a world where everyone
is equal and race, religion and sex etc are not important, but that we
as humans are, I think it can never happen and things go in cycles
(balance of the Jedi etc); people will fall back into old habits and
evil does tend to reform. You can never rid yourself of it. So
later, as the time goes on and the story of Voldemort passes to
another generation, they just don't care as much and each generation
it's less and less so some kids won't care....

After that first cycle of unpleasantness with V, it's more that they deliberately
went about forgetting that it all happened, a somewhat different progression.

[IsaacKuo]

Post by Rich Travsky
After that first cycle of unpleasantness with V, it's more that they deliberately
went about forgetting that it all happened, a somewhat different progression.

Who's to say that's not what happened after this latest cycle of
unpleasantness with V? At the end of almost every Harry Potter
book, the reader is left with the impression that NOW everyone
will believe Harry and Dumbledore. And yet what happens in
the next book?

Isaac Kuo

[2***@wongfaye.com]

slytherin doesnt mean evil or mean it just seems that way to us
because the helpful slytherins are supressed by the bullys of the house

[doofy]

Post by 2***@wongfaye.com
slytherin doesnt mean evil or mean it just seems that way to us
because the helpful slytherins are supressed by the bullys of the house

name a helpful slytherin STUDENT.

[Drusilla]

Post by doofy

Post by 2***@wongfaye.com
slytherin doesnt mean evil or mean it just seems that way to us
because the helpful slytherins are supressed by the bullys of the house

name a helpful slytherin STUDENT.

Regulus?

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by santosh

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor
like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out
to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

That's why Rowling has always emphasised *choices* one makes, hasn't she?
The Sorting Hat is not perfect. It sorts based on what it can make out at
that point. The individual is still free to develop whichever way he wants.

Harry went into Gryffindor because he asked to. If choice is the
criterion... then how would the school cope if *all* the students
chose Gryffindor?? :)
Usually there must be nothing like 'choice' involved. Harry had the
choice because he had a unique psychological make-up.

So its possible that the Hat might Sort someone kicking and screaming into a House that that person is strongly opposed to?

[Fat Sam]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met
(Gryffindor like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his
parents turned out to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

But you're missing something vital in Sapes actions.
It wasn't selfless bravery. It was quite a selfish courage.
He only did what he did to make amends for what he had done before - To ease
his own conscience.
A true Gryfindor wouldn't have needed an ulterior motive. Helping his fellow
man would have been motive enough.

[Bill Blakely]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:47:52 GMT, "Fat Sam"

Post by Fat Sam

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met
(Gryffindor like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his
parents turned out to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

But you're missing something vital in Sapes actions.
It wasn't selfless bravery. It was quite a selfish courage.
He only did what he did to make amends for what he had done before - To ease
his own conscience.
A true Gryfindor wouldn't have needed an ulterior motive. Helping his fellow
man would have been motive enough.

Good points.

I don't see Snape as good at all. He wasn't in love with Lily, he was
obsessed with her, like a stalker. And if in the end he was redeemed,
it was only by his well-deserved death.

Why Peter Pettigrew was sorted to Gryfindor has always been a mystery
to me, and now it looks like it always will be. But Snape was put
right where he belonged.


-------------------------------------------------
Stopping a president who thinks he can do no wrong takes people with the courage to do what's right.

[Tangent]

Post by Bill Blakely
Why Peter Pettigrew was sorted to Gryfindor has always been a mystery
to me, and now it looks like it always will be. But Snape was put
right where he belonged.

IMO, the best explanation comes down to the fact that the Hat selects
what qualities you value most, not what you actually are. For
instance, if you are very brave, but value intelligence more than
valour, then it's Ravenclaw for you, even though you've got the
qualities to be a true Gryffindor (and vice-versa for Hermione). This
is a basically an extension of the "choices, not abilities", point.
Wormtail valued bravery, without exemplifying it - although perhaps
his choices changed over the years, or he started confusing bravery
with brute force.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Fat Sam

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil" Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met
(Gryffindor like), and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his
parents turned out to be the one who acted more (Slytherin like)

But you're missing something vital in Sapes actions.
It wasn't selfless bravery. It was quite a selfish courage.
He only did what he did to make amends for what he had done before - To ease
his own conscience.
A true Gryfindor wouldn't have needed an ulterior motive. Helping his fellow
man would have been motive enough.

To make amends, or to get revenge? One is good, the other evil, and
either can result in the actions he took. I believe that revenge was at
the root of his actions.

[George Johnson]

"Riaan" <***@is.co.za> wrote in message news:***@vasbyt.isdsl.net...

| The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the
"evil"
| Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
| and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be
the
| one who acted more (Slytherin like)

M. Night Shamma-lamma-ding-dong...

"WHAT A TWIST!"

[John VanSickle]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Was Snape braver than Pettigrew? Certainly. But Snape wanted to by in
Slytherin, and so he went there. Lily didn't really have a firm idea of
where she wanted to be, so the Sorting Hat dipped into her brain and put
her where she belonged.

Regards,
John

[Tim Bruening]

DH Spoilers

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Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

I bet that Harry feels guilty about having so badly misjudged Snape?

[Rich Travsky]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Dumbledore did say he thought they sorted too early...

[Drusilla]

Post by Rich Travsky

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Dumbledore did say he thought they sorted too early...

So? Just because he thought Snape was noble and brave doesn't mean that
he should be immediately sent to Gryffindor nor that he couldn't belong
to Slytherin. Regulus was Slytherin and he was brave at the end of his
life. Dumbledore himself is somehow showing prejudice against the
Slytherin house with this statement.

[Toon]

Post by Riaan
The biggest irony of the book relating to the sorting hat is that the "evil"
Slytherin guy turnes out the bravest man Harry ever met (Gryffindor like),
and the "brave" Gryffindor guy who betrays his parents turned out to be the
one who acted more (Slytherin like)

Guess you can't judge a book by it's age.