How long did Dumbledore know about Moody (GoF Spoilers)

[Dacium]

Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)
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Why does Dumbledore ask Snape to fetch the Veritaserum potion and Winky? Of
course we know why in the end, but at the time Crouch has not yet been
revealed. Why call Winky if he didn't already know it was Crouch? Dumbledore
claims to have known that Harry was in trouble when Moody takes him away
after returning from the grave yard, but where is the connection to Crouch?

Dumbledore knew not only that Moody wasn't really Moody, he also knew it was
Crouch. And because Harry returning via the portkey gave no info to
Dumbledore about Crouch, Dumbledore even knew it was Crouch well before the
last task even started. Perhaps Dumbledore was waiting to see what would
happen so he could step in and catch Crouch and any conspirators, only to be
caught out when the cup became a port-key, something that he most likely
didn't foresee. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Richard Eney]

Post by Dacium
Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)

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Post by Dacium
Why does Dumbledore ask Snape to fetch the Veritaserum potion and Winky? Of
course we know why in the end, but at the time Crouch has not yet been
revealed. Why call Winky if he didn't already know it was Crouch? Dumbledore
claims to have known that Harry was in trouble when Moody takes him away
after returning from the grave yard, but where is the connection to Crouch?

So far, so good. The question is, Why did DD call for Winky as well as
the truth potion?

Post by Dacium
Dumbledore knew not only that Moody wasn't really Moody, he also knew it
was Crouch. And because Harry returning via the portkey gave no info to
Dumbledore about Crouch, Dumbledore even knew it was Crouch well before the
last task even started. Perhaps Dumbledore was waiting to see what would
happen so he could step in and catch Crouch and any conspirators, only to be
caught out when the cup became a port-key, something that he most likely
didn't foresee. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

DD didn't necessarily know that the impostor was Crouch. He didn't know
there was a problem until Moody took Harry away, _after_ the last task.
But DD did know there might be something up with Crouch Sr that needed
to be investigated.

Harry told Dumbledore that Crouch Sr had been in the woods and acting
strangely, and Krum could back Harry's story up. That tipped off DD
that something involving the Crouch family was happening. DD knew from
the past that Crouch Jr had been hauled away and supposedly died, and
that Crouch Sr had been mysteriously absent, letting a very junior
member of staff act as his mouthpiece in an event of international
wizarding importance. Winky was the only available source of
information about the Crouch family and their possible DE connections.

DD is a Legilimens, though we didn't know that at the time. It was
fairly clear that Winky herself, like Dobby, seems to have real
trouble telling an outright lie unless ordered to by a master. As
a Legilimens, DD could simply ask a question and know whether or
not her answer was a lie, and if necessary, he could have forced
the answer out of her without using the Veritaserum. He could have
done the same with the impostor, but at the risk of joining minds
with someone he didn't want to fight that way. After all, Voldemort
had been in the school once in person as Quirrell, and once in person
as a memory, part-time possessing Ginny.

Regardless of who the impostor was, Winky's information about the
Crouch family could be useful, so in order to investigate as quickly
as possible, Dumbledore had the potion and the house-elf brought
at the same time.

=Tamar

[gjw]

Post by Richard Eney

Post by Dacium
Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)

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Post by Dacium
Why does Dumbledore ask Snape to fetch the Veritaserum potion and Winky? Of
course we know why in the end, but at the time Crouch has not yet been
revealed. Why call Winky if he didn't already know it was Crouch? Dumbledore
claims to have known that Harry was in trouble when Moody takes him away
after returning from the grave yard, but where is the connection to Crouch?

So far, so good. The question is, Why did DD call for Winky as well as
the truth potion?

Post by Dacium
Dumbledore knew not only that Moody wasn't really Moody, he also knew it
was Crouch. And because Harry returning via the portkey gave no info to
Dumbledore about Crouch, Dumbledore even knew it was Crouch well before the
last task even started. Perhaps Dumbledore was waiting to see what would
happen so he could step in and catch Crouch and any conspirators, only to be
caught out when the cup became a port-key, something that he most likely
didn't foresee. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

DD didn't necessarily know that the impostor was Crouch. He didn't know
there was a problem until Moody took Harry away, _after_ the last task.
But DD did know there might be something up with Crouch Sr that needed
to be investigated.
Harry told Dumbledore that Crouch Sr had been in the woods and acting
strangely, and Krum could back Harry's story up. That tipped off DD
that something involving the Crouch family was happening. DD knew from
the past that Crouch Jr had been hauled away and supposedly died, and
that Crouch Sr had been mysteriously absent, letting a very junior
member of staff act as his mouthpiece in an event of international
wizarding importance. Winky was the only available source of
information about the Crouch family and their possible DE connections.
DD is a Legilimens, though we didn't know that at the time. It was
fairly clear that Winky herself, like Dobby, seems to have real
trouble telling an outright lie unless ordered to by a master. As
a Legilimens, DD could simply ask a question and know whether or
not her answer was a lie, and if necessary, he could have forced
the answer out of her without using the Veritaserum. He could have
done the same with the impostor, but at the risk of joining minds
with someone he didn't want to fight that way. After all, Voldemort
had been in the school once in person as Quirrell, and once in person
as a memory, part-time possessing Ginny.
Regardless of who the impostor was, Winky's information about the
Crouch family could be useful, so in order to investigate as quickly
as possible, Dumbledore had the potion and the house-elf brought
at the same time.

There's also that incident at the World Cup, where Winky was obviously
holding a seat for an invisible person. And Winky is later found with
the wand that fired the Dark Mark into the sky during the DE march.
Add to this Crouch Sr.'s odd behavior in the woods, and Winky would
seem to be an important witness in the case... So Dumbledore might
have called for her simply to question her in an attempt to straighten
things out.

But I suspect he had figured it out by then, suspected it might be
Crouch Jr. under the Moody disguise, and hence asked for Winky (since
she was the Croch's house elf).

[Toon]

Post by Richard Eney

Post by Dacium
Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)

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DD is a Legilimens, though we didn't know that at the time. It was
fairly clear that Winky herself, like Dobby, seems to have real
trouble telling an outright lie unless ordered to by a master. As
a Legilimens, DD could simply ask a question and know whether or
not her answer was a lie, and if necessary, he could have forced
the answer out of her without using the Veritaserum. He could have
done the same with the impostor, but at the risk of joining minds
with someone he didn't want to fight that way. After all, Voldemort

So, Dumbles is a Vulcan now?

Post by Richard Eney
had been in the school once in person as Quirrell, and once in person
as a memory, part-time possessing Ginny.

So much for Hogwarts being safer than Gringotts. V's been inside
twice now (in two diff forms). And an escaped prisoner with murder on
his mind came and went like nobody's business.

----
Free Report: How To Write A Book in 14 Days or Less! http://www.mcssl.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=114999

----

[Toon]

Post by Dacium
Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)
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Why does Dumbledore ask Snape to fetch the Veritaserum potion and Winky? Of
course we know why in the end, but at the time Crouch has not yet been
revealed. Why call Winky if he didn't already know it was Crouch? Dumbledore
claims to have known that Harry was in trouble when Moody takes him away
after returning from the grave yard, but where is the connection to Crouch?
Dumbledore knew not only that Moody wasn't really Moody, he also knew it was
Crouch. And because Harry returning via the portkey gave no info to
Dumbledore about Crouch, Dumbledore even knew it was Crouch well before the
last task even started. Perhaps Dumbledore was waiting to see what would
happen so he could step in and catch Crouch and any conspirators, only to be
caught out when the cup became a port-key, something that he most likely
didn't foresee. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

Time Tuner? Or more likely, when he realized Moody was fake, Crouch
Sr's comments Harry mentioned suddenly made sense, and he realized Jr
was Moody. or else he has a thing for Winky, and just lucked out.
----
Free Report: How To Write A Book in 14 Days or Less! http://www.mcssl.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=114999

----

[Ard Rhi]

Post by Dacium
Spoilers (doupt anyone has not read it yet though)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
Why does Dumbledore ask Snape to fetch the Veritaserum potion and Winky? Of
course we know why in the end, but at the time Crouch has not yet been
revealed. Why call Winky if he didn't already know it was Crouch? Dumbledore
claims to have known that Harry was in trouble when Moody takes him away
after returning from the grave yard, but where is the connection to Crouch?
Dumbledore knew not only that Moody wasn't really Moody, he also knew it was
Crouch. And because Harry returning via the portkey gave no info to
Dumbledore about Crouch, Dumbledore even knew it was Crouch well before the
last task even started. Perhaps Dumbledore was waiting to see what would
happen so he could step in and catch Crouch and any conspirators, only to be
caught out when the cup became a port-key, something that he most likely
didn't foresee. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

He probably pieced it together as soon as the imposter removed Harry from
Dumbledore's side.

After he gives the instructions for the truth potion and so on, we see
Dumbledore go about searching for the real Moody. He knew by the enchanting
of the cup into a portkey that it was someone on staff who had access to the
cup. He didn't know how or why, exactly, everything had been happening at
Hogwarts as it had, but the imposter gave himself away at the end there.
Dumbledore called for the veritaserum and Winky just to put the pieces
together.

Ard Rhi