Post by gjwPost by starkNot like I really want to restart this debate now, but I feel the need to at
least supply the evidence...
Post by gjwPost by Allyson RobinsonCouric: "Any snogging with Hermione?"
Rowling: [surprised] "Harry and Hermione! Do you think so?" -- From
That is a question, not an answer. Which makes me suspicious, as if
she's trying to avoid directly answering the reporter's question.
We have no known instances of Rowling every deceiving us with interview
answers. She has even said that she answers questions directly and
truthfully, except in cases where it might give away future plot, and then
she will simply avoid saying anything.
The point is, she did not give an answer. She answered the question
with a question. "Do /you/ think so?" If you choose to interpret that
as anything other than simple evasion, you're fooling yourself.
Actually, the question was more like "Do you /think so/?", with the stress
not on the 'you', but rather on the idea of any thinking that Harry and
Hermione were suited for each other. In this case, the text is not enough.
You'd have to see it to be able to even guess at how to take it.
Post by gjwPost by starkWe have unfiltered access to Harry's thoughts, and they are strictly
platonic toward Hermione. I'd define 'platonic' as "non-romantic". Harry
has no romantic feelings toward Hermione, and the plot doesn't seem even
remotely set up to easily accomidate such a thing.
As I stated in the paragraph you were apparently responding to, up
until now Harry and Hermione's relationship has indeed been strictly
platonic. The key words are "up until now".
Harry didn't even think about girls until Cho, and he certainly wasn't
thinking about Hermione in any romantic sense when he was busy chasing
Cho. (I remember hearing Vivian Leigh say that she never noticed Clark
Gable romantically during the filming of "Gone With the Wind" because
she was in the middle of a romance with Laurence Olivier.) But the Cho
episode is over. Ron's relationship with Hermione was downplayed
(indeed almost ignored) in the last book. The playing field has been
cleared for the next chapter... If that's the way Rowling wants to
play it.
As I said, she can write whatever she wants, but its pretty poor writing to
include all of the rather strong references from GoF if they go nowhere.
And ignoring the references and creating a semi-conflicting result would be
truly jarring. There would need to be at least one book of setup.
Post by gjwPost by starkPost by gjwPost by Allyson RobinsonQ: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione
during the last half of Goblet of Fire?
A: "Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical
boy." -- From a BarnesandNoble.com chat with JK Rowling
There is no question that something is going on in GoF. The problem is
that it is probably one-sided. Ron, who always thought of Hermione as
a platonic friend (and occasional pain in the neck) notices that she
is a girl (after her Cinderella transformation before the Yule Ball).
Ron is no doubt slightly smitten on Hermione. The problem is that it's
quite possible that Hermione may not feel the same for Ron.
There are several occasions where we see hints that its not. There are a
number of occasions where Hermione expresses what any 12 year old will
identify as jealousy whenever Fleur gives any attention to Ron, or Ron to
Fleur. And the post-Ball argument is distinctly lacking in hypotheticals,
its Ron and Hermione arguing about each other.
You are simply seeing what you want to see.
That's odd. How do you know what I want to see? Even I dont.
That was the point. I really dont care who ends up with who. I certainly
dont want romance to play a major part in these books, and a sadistic part
of me would laugh with glee if Rowling never resolved such things, and
instead left all the militant 'shippers' to wage their wars for eternity.
When I first started reading the books, I assumed it would be Harry and
Hermione out of the basic "Alpha Male" principle (Lead male character gets
the most prominently featured female). Its at the core of our social
structure. We expect the Quarterback to get the Head Cheerleader.
After reading GoF, I was forced to admit to myself that the author simply
wasn't setting that up, but there was something set up between Ron and
Hermione. Its unconventional in stories, and many people dont like
convention to be ignored.
Post by gjwHermione's reactions are
evidence of envy towards Fleur and her flirtatious ways, and of
general disgust that boys can be so easily manipulated by a pretty
face, more than they are of jealousy about either of the boys.
"Look after Gabrielle," she told her, and then she turned to Harry.
"You saved 'er," she said breathlessly. "Even though she was not your
'ostage."
"Yeah," said Harry, who was now heartily wishing he'd left all three
girls tied to the statue.
Fleur bent down, kissed Harry twice on each cheek (he felt his face
burn and wouldn't have been surprised if steam was coming out of his
ears again), then said to Ron, "And you too-you 'elped -"
"Yeah," said Ron, looking extremely hopeful, "yeah, a bit -"
Fleur swooped down on him too and kissed him. Hermione looked simply
furious, but just then, Ludo Bagman's magically magnified voice boomed
out beside them, making them all jump, and causing the crowd in the
stands to go very quiet.
Hermione looked furious after Ron was kissed. There is no reaction noted
after Harry's kiss. In the world of literature, proximity is used to convey
relations. Ron was kissed, and immediately Rowling notes that Hermione is
upset.
I can think of no correct interpretation of that passage other than saying
that Hermione is more upset by Ron's kiss than Harry's.
"'Arry!"
He looked around. Fleur Delacour was hurrying up the stone steps into
the castle. Beyond her, far across the grounds. Harry could see Hagrid
helping Madame Maxime to back two of the giant horses into their
harness. The Beauxbatons carriage was about to take off.
"We will see each uzzer again, I 'ope," said Fleur as she reached him,
holding out her hand. "I am 'oping to get a job 'ere, to improve my
Eenglish."
"It's very good already," said Ron in a strangled sort of voice. Fleur
smiled at him; Hermione scowled.
...and there it is again. Hermione showing displeasure right after Fleur
pays any attention to Ron. In this case, its actually in the same sentence,
with punctuation making the link between Hermione's scowl and Fleur smiling
at Ron an explicit one.
Post by gjwIf you want to start citing scenes that probably don't mean anything,
the incident in which Krum tells Harry he believes that Harry &
Hermione are lovers,
Um... how about we say: "...Harry & Hermione are daing,"
Post by gjwand the incident in which Hermione might have
deliberately sabotaged Harry's Valentines Day date with Cho, outweigh
any vague hints about her and Ron. But the reality is that Hermione
hasn't paid attention (romantically) to anyone by Krum.
As someone else has pointed out to me, its very likely you are a male.
Those scenes can be seen as evidence, but they completely lack any emotion
on Hermione's part. They dont have the emotion she displays in GoF toward
Ron. In both cases, Hermione seems mostly indifferent, whereas her
interactions will Ron show an uncharacteristic amount of emotion.
Post by gjwBoth of the boys have spent the last five years virtually living with
Hermione - if that's not a foundation for a relationship, I don't know
what is.
So, you're admitting you dont know what the foundation for a relationship
is? </joke> I'm not trying to be insulting or condescending, but I'm now
curious of your age.
In my experience, extended periods of close contact do more to suppress
romantic feelings than they do to promote them. If two people are not at
all romantically inclined toward each other and they start spending a lot of
time together, any romantic feelings tend to be suppressed. If they were
romantically inclined to begin with, they tend to form a different dynamic
and it will allow (though not necessarily promote) for an escalation in the
romance.
In the case where the extended contact spans puberty or whenever the first
relationship experience occurs, I've only ever seen a boy and girl become
involved if they are the first people they are attracted to (that first
crush of adolescence).
When I was younger, most of my friends were girls. Its a double-edged
sword, really. I learned quite a bit about women, but none of them ever
expressed any interest in dating me. My first "crush" (gives the wrong
idea) lived a ways away, and had already dated a couple guys.
Post by gjwPost by starkSo, yes, nothing she's said rules it out, but similarly, nothing she's said
has ruled out the possibility that Harry and Ron get together.
Now you're just being absurd...
Yes. But as others have pointed out, there is more evidence for Ron and
Harry, than for Hermione and Harry.
Sure Harry and Hermione is a possibility, but you're blind if you dont think
that Ron and Hermione has to be resolved as well.
--
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