Yet *more* Fidelius Charm questions.

[Welsh Dog]

As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...

"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.

We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...

James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell—also Dumbledore’s still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

Also...

Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.

However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...

Bathilda drops in most days, she’s a fascinating
old thing...

From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...

Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed”down” had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?

After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!

Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

Welshdog

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell—also Dumbledore’s still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she’s a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed”down” had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

[Here in Minnesota!]

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Then there still the big hole with Bathilda... she would have to know the
secret keeper was wormtail and not Sirius and she didn't say anything
either.

Unless....

when Harry found out the secret of the OOTP he didn't know who the secret
keeper was

"Harry looked down at the piece of paper. *The narrow handwriting was
vaguely familiar.* It said:
The Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at number twelve,
Grimmauld Place,
London."

He didn't find out later [after he knew the secret] who the SK was

So...

Maybe DD & Bathilda were told the secret but never knew for sure who the SK
was just like Harry didn't know.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Then there still the big hole with Bathilda... she would have to know the
secret keeper was wormtail and not Sirius and she didn't say anything
either.
Unless....
when Harry found out the secret of the OOTP he didn't know who the secret
keeper was
"Harry looked down at the piece of paper. *The narrow handwriting was
The Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at number twelve,
Grimmauld Place,
London."
He didn't find out later [after he knew the secret] who the SK was
So...
Maybe DD & Bathilda were told the secret but never knew for sure who the SK
was just like Harry didn't know.

I think it was more likely that Bathilda would not have been considered a
religable witness.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the

cloak

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought

that

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Then there still the big hole with Bathilda... she would have to know the
secret keeper was wormtail and not Sirius and she didn't say anything
either.
Unless....
when Harry found out the secret of the OOTP he didn't know who the secret
keeper was
"Harry looked down at the piece of paper. *The narrow handwriting was
The Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at number

twelve,

Post by Here in Minnesota!
Grimmauld Place,
London."
He didn't find out later [after he knew the secret] who the SK was
So...
Maybe DD & Bathilda were told the secret but never knew for sure who the

SK

Post by Here in Minnesota!
was just like Harry didn't know.

I think it was more likely that Bathilda would not have been considered a
religable witness.

But she was a famous author! Wouldn't that give her credibility?

[Thom Madura]

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Then there still the big hole with Bathilda... she would have to know the
secret keeper was wormtail and not Sirius and she didn't say anything
either.
Unless....
when Harry found out the secret of the OOTP he didn't know who the secret
keeper was
"Harry looked down at the piece of paper. *The narrow handwriting was
The Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at number twelve,
Grimmauld Place,
London."
He didn't find out later [after he knew the secret] who the SK was
So...
Maybe DD & Bathilda were told the secret but never knew for sure who the SK
was just like Harry didn't know.

Also remember - it was an FC. IF bathilda knew - she could not tell anyone.

[Here in Minnesota!]

Post by Thom Madura
Also remember - it was an FC. IF bathilda knew - she could not tell anyone.

IF that is true...

DD would had the same problem. this was the question I was answering:

"We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter."

But I think it's clear the the FC was over once Lilly and James were killed.
Otherwise you have many more questions [such as how did Hagrid find the
place,etc]

[Welsh Dog]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 08:54:22 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Thom Madura
Also remember - it was an FC. IF bathilda knew - she could not tell anyone.

IF that is true...
"We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter."
But I think it's clear the the FC was over once Lilly and James were killed.
Otherwise you have many more questions [such as how did Hagrid find the
place,etc]

Yet... the house wasn't entirely demolished... and Peter was still
alive.

Welshdog

[Welsh Dog]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"
<snip>

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he was not in on the secret either.

And... ??

Welshdog

[Thom Madura]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"
<snip>

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he was not in on the secret either.

And... ??

Remember - it was an FC. Bathilda could not tell the secret to anyone.

[Welsh Dog]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:40:44 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"
<snip>

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret
keeper - not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he was not in on the secret either.

And... ??

Remember - it was an FC. Bathilda could not tell the secret to anyone.

But she could have testified that Peter was the Secret Keeper not
Sirius? Or at the least she'd have known the person who gave her the
secret and *they* could have testified it was Peter!!

Welshdog

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:40:44 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"
<snip>

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret
keeper - not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he was not in on the secret either.

And... ??

Remember - it was an FC. Bathilda could not tell the secret to anyone.

But she could have testified that Peter was the Secret Keeper not
Sirius? Or at the least she'd have known the person who gave her the
secret and *they* could have testified it was Peter!!
Welshdog

Could have, but the MOM wasn't interested in whether Sirius was guilty
or not. They just wanted someone to answer for Voldermort's crimes.
And the Potter's KiIller was good enough for them.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:40:44 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

<snip>

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Thom Madura
We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret - he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret
keeper - not Peter.
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he was not in on the secret either.

And... ??

Remember - it was an FC. Bathilda could not tell the secret to anyone.

But she could have testified that Peter was the Secret Keeper not
Sirius? Or at the least she'd have known the person who gave her the
secret and *they* could have testified it was Peter!!

Could have, but the MOM wasn't interested in whether Sirius was guilty
or not. They just wanted someone to answer for Voldermort's crimes.
And the Potter's KiIller was good enough for them.

Except they threw Sirius in jail for killing the Muggles... and
'whoever' could have testified they got the secret from Peter maybe
throwing a whole new slant on the picture?

Maybe the MoM might have ignored the news but DD wouldn't. After all
this is the guy who knew Frank Bryce had been killed!!

Welshdog

[Toon]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura
We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret

No, we don't know that.

Post by Thom Madura
- he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.

And Peter could have written it out, thus inspiring DD to many years
later in OOP.

Post by Thom Madura
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Since he knew where to find Harry, he had to have known. Whether he
read it, or the secret was only from the bad guys is the question.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura
We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret

No, we don't know that.

Post by Thom Madura
- he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.

And Peter could have written it out, thus inspiring DD to many years
later in OOP.

Post by Thom Madura
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Since he knew where to find Harry, he had to have known. Whether he
read it, or the secret was only from the bad guys is the question.

There's more to it than that tho. In order to get the secret he needed
to have been given it by Peter... but if he got it from Peter he'd
have known Sirius wasn't the Secret Keeper. However he testified that
Sirius was Secret Keeper so... ?? :)

So it's a plot hole - again!!

Welshdog

[Drusilla]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura
We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret

No, we don't know that.

Post by Thom Madura
- he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.

And Peter could have written it out, thus inspiring DD to many years
later in OOP.

Post by Thom Madura
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Since he knew where to find Harry, he had to have known. Whether he
read it, or the secret was only from the bad guys is the question.

There's more to it than that tho. In order to get the secret he needed
to have been given it by Peter... but if he got it from Peter he'd
have known Sirius wasn't the Secret Keeper. However he testified that
Sirius was Secret Keeper so... ?? :)
So it's a plot hole - again!!

Unless Peter had some Polijuice.

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

Post by Thom Madura
We know that Dumbledore did NOT know the secret

No, we don't know that.

Post by Thom Madura
- he had to get the cloak
before they made the secret with Peter - because during Sirius' trail -
Dumbledore - and everyone else - thought that Sirius was the secret keeper -
not Peter.

And Peter could have written it out, thus inspiring DD to many years
later in OOP.

Post by Thom Madura
That is proven by the scene at Rosemerta's - where all still thought that
way as well. So did hagrid - so he wsa not in on the secret either.

Since he knew where to find Harry, he had to have known. Whether he
read it, or the secret was only from the bad guys is the question.

There's more to it than that tho. In order to get the secret he needed
to have been given it by Peter... but if he got it from Peter he'd
have known Sirius wasn't the Secret Keeper. However he testified that
Sirius was Secret Keeper so... ?? :)
So it's a plot hole - again!!
Welshdog

Peter gave the note to Sirius to pass along. Peter remains a secret
Secret Keeper, and Sirius is a decoy.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:55:03 -0400, "Thom Madura"

<snip>

Post by Toon

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Welsh Dog
Since he knew where to find Harry, he had to have known. Whether he
read it, or the secret was only from the bad guys is the question.

There's more to it than that tho. In order to get the secret he needed
to have been given it by Peter... but if he got it from Peter he'd
have known Sirius wasn't the Secret Keeper. However he testified that
Sirius was Secret Keeper so... ?? :)
So it's a plot hole - again!!

Peter gave the note to Sirius to pass along. Peter remains a secret
Secret Keeper, and Sirius is a decoy.

Peter didn't appear to be that clever. He had trouble answering exam
questions on identifying werewolves when he spent weeks playing with
one! :)

Tho that might explain why DD still thought Sirius was the SC!!

Welshdog

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Toon
Peter gave the note to Sirius to pass along. Peter remains a secret
Secret Keeper, and Sirius is a decoy.

Peter didn't appear to be that clever. He had trouble answering exam
questions on identifying werewolves when he spent weeks playing with
one! :)

But James or Lily or the cat can easily think of that.

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell—also Dumbledore’s still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

I don't think he ever grasped the point of psychotic sociopath hunting
for you and yours.

Post by Welsh Dog
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she’s a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed”down” had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

As I've said before, I think the secret was only against Vodlemort and
his DE's. So everybody else knew where they were. They just couldn't
tell Voldemort.

[Here in Minnesota!]

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.

The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

[Welsh Dog]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:19:27 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Which makes it more of a plot hole than anything! Of the two I think I
prefer the possibility JKR has her 'timelines' wrong again.

Welshdog

[Here in Minnesota!]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:19:27 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Which makes it more of a plot hole than anything! Of the two I think I
prefer the possibility JKR has her 'timelines' wrong again.
Welshdog
--

we agree again!

[Toon]

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:19:27 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

[Here in Minnesota!]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:19:27 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

Could be, but if they hid for only 7 or 8 days, they only hid only one
weekend no matter what day they started and what day the letter was sent.

[Welsh Dog]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:22:54 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:19:27 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

Could be, but if they hid for only 7 or 8 days, they only hid only one
weekend no matter what day they started and what day the letter was sent.

I suppose one possibility is that they went into 'hiding' fairly early
on in Lily's pregnancy but only used the Fidelius Charm when they
thought Voldemort was close on their tails!

It's not a very satisfactory answer but it would clear it up.?

Welshdog

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog
I suppose one possibility is that they went into 'hiding' fairly early
on in Lily's pregnancy but only used the Fidelius Charm when they
thought Voldemort was close on their tails!
It's not a very satisfactory answer but it would clear it up.?
Welshdog

Could be. Lily's letter gave the impression they were hiding for a
while. But who knows. James is a man of action. Even a week of
hiding is too much for him.

[Toon]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:22:54 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Toon

Post by Here in Minnesota!
the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

Could be, but if they hid for only 7 or 8 days, they only hid only one
weekend no matter what day they started and what day the letter was sent.

They hide on a Fri. Wormtail visits Sat or Sun. James goes stir
crazy. Lily writes the letter Thur or Fri, and V attacks that night.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:22:54 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Toon

Post by Here in Minnesota!
the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

Could be, but if they hid for only 7 or 8 days, they only hid only one
weekend no matter what day they started and what day the letter was sent.

They hide on a Fri. Wormtail visits Sat or Sun. James goes stir
crazy. Lily writes the letter Thur or Fri, and V attacks that night.

Except the letter implies that they've been there for some time. One
hardly goes 'stir crazy' after one or two nights in with the missus
and child...

... hmmm. On the other hand?? :)

Welshdog

[Toon]

Post by Welsh Dog

Post by Welsh Dog
On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:22:54 -0500, "Here in Minnesota!"

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Toon

Post by Here in Minnesota!
the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Could be that was a Fri, and Lily referenced the past Sat/Sun.

Could be, but if they hid for only 7 or 8 days, they only hid only one
weekend no matter what day they started and what day the letter was sent.

They hide on a Fri. Wormtail visits Sat or Sun. James goes stir
crazy. Lily writes the letter Thur or Fri, and V attacks that night.

Except the letter implies that they've been there for some time. One
hardly goes 'stir crazy' after one or two nights in with the missus
and child...
... hmmm. On the other hand?? :)
Welshdog

James is a rebel. Knowing he has to stay put make shim antsy. And no
cloak makes it impossible to leave. Even a few days being forced to
follow the rules is too much for him.

[DaveD]

Post by Here in Minnesota!

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell-also Dumbledore's still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.
Also...
Wormy was here last weekend. I thought he seemed down,
but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried
all evening when I heard.
However in DH, according to the letter to Lily's that Harry found in
Sirius' bedroom we learned that...
Bathilda drops in most days, she's a fascinating
old thing...
From the letter Harry surmised that Peter was upset because he'd just
divulged the secret of their location to Voldemort...
Pettigrew, the traitor, had seemed"down" had he? Was
he aware that he was seeing James and Lily alive
for the last time?
After all that... the thing that struck me was that despite the charm
having only been in place a week... and apart from Dumbledore already
popping by to borrow the cloak... Bathilda appears to have had almost
free run of the place!!
Seems a bit odd that the secret that was to protect their lives and
that of the 'chosen one' was to be bandied about so freely! DD I can
understand... but Bathilda??
Welshdog

the main thing I noticed from your research is the time doesn't seem to
match up. The whole time is "barely a week", 7 or 8 days.
The phrase "was here last weekend" to me implies they were there for more
than one weekend and "drops in most days" also implies a longer time.

Although Dd explains in DH that the Potters were killed in "their house",
suggesting they'd gone into hiding in their own home, depending on how you
read it. If so, it wasn't terribly clever, but it would explain how come
they appear to have been there some time.

DaveD

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Welsh Dog
As far as I can work out from PoA, James and Lily were killed within a
week of the charm being cast over them and/or their house...
"But James Potter insisted on using Black?"
"He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week
after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black
betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.
We know James and Lily went into hiding as soon as they were aware
Voldemort was looking for them, hence no doubt Lily's complaint in
DH...
James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries
not to show it but I can tell—also Dumbledore’s still got
his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions.

Spoilers for the new play: Harry Potter And The Cursed Child:

20
19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

Changed Premise: Late in the play, Albus Severus Potter and Scorpius Malfoy are stranded in 1981 Godric's Hollow. They are staking out the Potter residence. They see James, Lilly, and Harry leave the house to talk a walk. Later, they see Lilly and Harry again leave the house! This means that James and Lilly felt safe taking little excursions outside their hiding place, which contradicts her complaint! Evidently, the FC protected the Potters anywhere in Godric's Hollow, not just in their house!

BTW, how were Albus and Scorpius able to see the Potters? After all, I didn't see Peter Pettigrew telling them the Secret about the Potters!