Madam Rosmerta

Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?

(text or film)

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!

Green-Eyed Chris

2007-12-20 08:28:32 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.

Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.

In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.
--
Chris

Richard Eney

2007-12-20 08:34:11 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.

Or as a hairdresser of good repute.
Or as someone who has chosen to have only one name.

=Tamar

John VanSickle

2007-12-20 14:41:12 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.

Or as a hairdresser of good repute.
Or as someone who has chosen to have only one name.

Or as someone who develops a close relationship with her customers, so
that a first-name basis is appropriate.

Look: People drink what she hands them without questioning the safety
of doing so. That is a position of considerable trust.

Regards,
John

Phil

2007-12-22 10:04:55 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.

Or as a hairdresser of good repute.
Or as someone who has chosen to have only one name.
=Tamar

Dream on....

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

2007-12-23 00:24:40 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.

Not true; it's the only name mentioned.

Post by Green-Eyed Chris
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.

There are many women referred to as "Madam" in the books, and it's
always the last name (see my other post, to John VanSickle).

Post by Green-Eyed Chris
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.

Or as a hairdresser of good repute.
Or as someone who has chosen to have only one name.

If it wasn't that Rosmerta is a fictional character, I'd find it quite
disgusting that ignorance of a lady's first name is taken as indication
that she's a whore or a pimp, despite the many contra-examples.

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!

Green-Eyed Chris

2007-12-23 08:59:43 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.

Not true; it's the only name mentioned.

Post by Green-Eyed Chris
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.

There are many women referred to as "Madam" in the books, and it's
always the last name (see my other post, to John VanSickle).

Does Dumbledore speak of or address any of the "Madams" you mention in
your other post by last name only? HBP, Ch. 25:

"and stay out!" shouted Madam Rosmerta, forcibly ejecting a
grubby-looking wizard. "Oh, hello, Albus... you're out late..."
"Good evening, Rosmerta, good evening... forgive me, I'm off
to the Hog's Head... no offence, but I feel like a quieter
atmosphere tonight..."

Should "Rosmerta" actually be her last name, then I can only think of
the possibility that she has a "Don't call me Nymphadora" attitude with
regards to her unknown first name.

Or as a hairdresser of good repute.
Or as someone who has chosen to have only one name.

Obviously a remnant of my wasted youth in the colonies. Yet, not every
woman called or calling herself "Madam" is a lady (e.g. Umbridge).
--
Chris

Toon

2007-12-23 14:23:59 UTC

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris

Post by Green-Eyed Chris
"and stay out!" shouted Madam Rosmerta, forcibly ejecting a
grubby-looking wizard. "Oh, hello, Albus... you're out late..."
"Good evening, Rosmerta, good evening... forgive me, I'm off
to the Hog's Head... no offence, but I feel like a quieter
atmosphere tonight..."
Should "Rosmerta" actually be her last name, then I can only think of
the possibility that she has a "Don't call me Nymphadora" attitude with
regards to her unknown first name.

While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. IE, if he address
Ron as Ron and not Ronald). Anybody hearing that conversation would
think that's her first name.

Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
honorific.

Richard Eney

2007-12-24 07:00:16 UTC

Post by Toon
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris

While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. IE, if he address
Ron as Ron and not Ronald). Anybody hearing that conversation would
think that's her first name.
Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
honorific.

As I understand it, the most fashionable hairdressers tend to use
their first name together with a standard respectful title, e.g.
"Mister Jonathan." It allows them to be on a first-name basis with
their clientele while still keeping some psychological distance.
I think Madame Rosmerta does the same. She has a similar situation,
needing to keep her customers feeling loyal to her yet also needing
to keep a professional standard of behavior. Most of her customers
don't call her merely "Rosmerta," but Dumbledore has a closer acquaintance
with her than most people. DD calls most people by their first names
(after all, he's been the headmaster for most of them), but she also
calls him by his first name, something that very few people do.

=Tamar

Sirius Kase

2007-12-24 13:54:11 UTC

Post by Toon
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris

"Šand stay out!" shouted Madam Rosmerta, forcibly ejecting a
grubby-looking wizard. "Oh, hello, Albus... you're out late..."
"Good evening, Rosmerta, good evening... forgive me, I'm off
to the Hog's Head... no offence, but I feel like a quieter
atmosphere tonight..."
Should "Rosmerta" actually be her last name, then I can only think of
the possibility that she has a "Don't call me Nymphadora" attitude with
regards to her unknown first name.

While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. IE, if he address
Ron as Ron and not Ronald). Anybody hearing that conversation would
think that's her first name.
Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
honorific.

Unless there is a cultural context that I'm not famiiar with, I have
no idea why Rowling refers to various women as "Madame". It sounds
nice, sort of, but in real life, it generally refers to the woman who
manages a house of prostitution, not an inn or a bar, unless the inn
or a bar is be part of the sex business. If a woman is French, I
suppose it might be okay to call her madam if she takes it as an honor
and not a put down. But, unless you are speaking French, it is a lady
in the sex business.

Or, maybe British people and/or wizards are different. It's a kids
book and try to interpret things appropriately.

Besides, Mister Johnathon sounds gay, not a put down, I've had gay
hairdressors before, and there's nothing wrong with that. :-)

Thom Madura

2007-12-24 20:46:18 UTC

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by Toon
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris

While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. IE, if he address
Ron as Ron and not Ronald). Anybody hearing that conversation would
think that's her first name.
Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
honorific.

Unless there is a cultural context that I'm not famiiar with, I have
no idea why Rowling refers to various women as "Madame". It sounds
nice, sort of, but in real life, it generally refers to the woman who
manages a house of prostitution, not an inn or a bar, unless the inn
or a bar is be part of the sex business. If a woman is French, I
suppose it might be okay to call her madam if she takes it as an honor
and not a put down. But, unless you are speaking French, it is a lady
in the sex business.
Or, maybe British people and/or wizards are different. It's a kids
book and try to interpret things appropriately.
Besides, Mister Johnathon sounds gay, not a put down, I've had gay
hairdressors before, and there's nothing wrong with that. :-)

Or could it be that in the world of Magic - like in the circus - using a
title like Mister Or Madame is a normal way of doing things. It
certainly is the way of doing things in the world of fortune telling -
for instance.

Richard Eney

2007-12-27 01:04:38 UTC

<snip>

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Sirius Kase

You have the spellings reversed.

"Madame" with the "e" on the end is the correct respectful title
for a woman. The combination "Sir and Madame" is sometimes used
for a couple. The shortened version, "Dame," is the precise equivalent
of "Sir" for a woman who has received a knighthood.

"Madam" without the "e" is, in the USA, used as a noun for the job
of procuress - "a madam" but not "madam X."

I think the most logical source for the various "Madame" titles in
the series is Madame Blavatsky, who was and is rather well-known in
the general field of mystical writing. By the way, you don't have
to be speaking French to use the term "Madame" because for a century
or four, French was the primary language of power, before English
took over that role.

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Sirius Kase
Or, maybe British people and/or wizards are different. It's a kids
book and try to interpret things appropriately.
Besides, Mister Johnathon sounds gay, not a put down, I've had gay
hairdressors before, and there's nothing wrong with that. :-)

I don't know where you found a putdown in the use of the title.
Also, it isn't necessarily gay; it's a hairdresser thing. I know
a non-gay hairdresser who uses the title. It's just a way to deal
with the professional situation.

Post by Thom Madura
Or could it be that in the world of Magic - like in the circus - using
a title like Mister Or Madame is a normal way of doing things. It
certainly is the way of doing things in the world of fortune telling -
for instance.

Yes, like Madame Blavatsky, or the fortuneteller in T.S.Eliot's poem,
Madame Sosostris.

=Tamar

Jack Cuyler

2007-12-25 03:31:43 UTC

In the US, it's entirely proper to address women as "madam" as part of a
title. Currently, the President is addressed as "Mr. President." If and
when a woman becomes President, she would be addressed as "Madam
President." Female cabinet members are addressed as "Madame Secretary,"
and a female foreperson in a jury would be addressed as "Madam
Foreperson." Though in none of these examples would one use the name
with the title. That is, one doesn't address Condoleezza Rice as "Madam
Condoleezza" or "Madam Rice", but rather as "Madam Secretary.

It is also very acceptable, and in the case of the military and in some
schools, required, to address women with the shortened "ma'am", again
without the name. This is somewhat expected in the service and retail
industries, as well.
--
Cheers,
Jack

I WILL NOT MAKE FLATUENT NOISES IN CLASS
I WILL NOT MAKE FLATUENT NOISES IN CLASS
I WILL NOT MAKE FLATUENT NOISES IN CLASS
I WILL NOT MAKE FLATUENT NOISES IN CLASS

Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 7F13

Green-Eyed Chris

2007-12-27 10:45:05 UTC

In article

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by Toon
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris

"Sand stay out!" shouted Madam Rosmerta, forcibly ejecting a
grubby-looking wizard. "Oh, hello, Albus... you're out late..."
"Good evening, Rosmerta, good evening... forgive me, I'm off
to the Hog's Head... no offence, but I feel like a quieter
atmosphere tonight..."
Should "Rosmerta" actually be her last name, then I can only think of
the possibility that she has a "Don't call me Nymphadora" attitude with
regards to her unknown first name.

While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. IE, if he address
Ron as Ron and not Ronald). Anybody hearing that conversation would
think that's her first name.
Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
honorific.

Unless there is a cultural context that I'm not famiiar with, I have
no idea why Rowling refers to various women as "Madame". It sounds
nice, sort of, but in real life, it generally refers to the woman who
manages a house of prostitution, not an inn or a bar, unless the inn
or a bar is be part of the sex business. If a woman is French, I
suppose it might be okay to call her madam if she takes it as an honor
and not a put down. But, unless you are speaking French, it is a lady
in the sex business.
Or, maybe British people and/or wizards are different. It's a kids
book and try to interpret things appropriately.
Besides, Mister Johnathon sounds gay, not a put down, I've had gay
hairdressors before, and there's nothing wrong with that. :-)

The madam discussion takes me back to 1968 Paris where the hottest
ticket in town was for the travesty show at a little place called
~Madame Arthur~.

To my mind, any gay hairdresser worth his salt would have no problem
with neon lights saying ~Madam(e) Johnathon~.
--
Chris

Louis Epstein

2008-09-16 05:03:41 UTC

Sirius Kase <***@gmail.com> wrote:
: On Dec 24, 2:00?am, ***@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
:> In article <***@4ax.com>,
:>
:>
:> Toon ?<***@toon.com> wrote:
:> >On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:59:43 +0100, Green-Eyed Chris
:> ><***@SPAMfreenet.de> wrote:
:>
:> >>"?and stay out!" shouted Madam Rosmerta, forcibly ejecting a
:> >>grubby-looking wizard. "Oh, hello, Albus... you're out late..."
:> >>"Good evening, Rosmerta, good evening... forgive me, I'm off
:> >>to the Hog's Head... no offence, but I feel like a quieter
:> >>atmosphere tonight..."
:>
:> >>Should "Rosmerta" actually be her last name, then I can only think of
:> >>the possibility that she has a "Don't call me Nymphadora" attitude with
:> >>regards to her unknown first name.
:>
:> >While possible, considering she just called DD by his first name, the
:> >logical assumption to be made is any name (not already known to be a
:> >last name), is a first name (or possible nickname. ?IE, if he address
:> >Ron as Ron and not Ronald). ?Anybody hearing that conversation would
:> >think that's her first name.
:>
:> >Course, she can be different and use madam with her first name, and
:> >not last, to seem friendlier and a bit less formal, even with the
:> >honorific.
:>
:> As I understand it, the most fashionable hairdressers tend to use
:> their first name together with a standard respectful title, e.g.
:> "Mister Jonathan." ?It allows them to be on a first-name basis with
:> their clientele while still keeping some psychological distance. ?
:> I think Madame Rosmerta does the same. ?She has a similar situation,
:> needing to keep her customers feeling loyal to her yet also needing
:> to keep a professional standard of behavior. ?Most of her customers
:> don't call her merely "Rosmerta," but Dumbledore has a closer acquaintance
:> with her than most people. ?DD calls most people by their first names
:> (after all, he's been the headmaster for most of them), but she also
:> calls him by his first name, something that very few people do.
:>
:> =Tamar
:
: Unless there is a cultural context that I'm not famiiar with, I have
: no idea why Rowling refers to various women as "Madame". It sounds
: nice, sort of, but in real life, it generally refers to the woman who
: manages a house of prostitution, not an inn or a bar, unless the inn
: or a bar is be part of the sex business. If a woman is French, I
: suppose it might be okay to call her madam if she takes it as an honor
: and not a put down. But, unless you are speaking French, it is a lady
: in the sex business.
:
: Or, maybe British people and/or wizards are different. It's a kids
: book and try to interpret things appropriately.

It happens often enough that I think it's supposed to be a wizardly
honorific.Madam Marchbanks is a renowned educator,there's no sign of
anyone in the sex business.

Madam Rosmerta is in a hospitality trade but there's no sign she
extends that to the bedroom...remember,the Three Broomsticks is
the respectable bar compared to the Hog's Head!

-=-=-:
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

Eric Bohlman

2007-12-26 14:10:38 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
If it wasn't that Rosmerta is a fictional character, I'd find it quite
disgusting that ignorance of a lady's first name is taken as
indication that she's a whore or a pimp, despite the many
contra-examples.

I think you're getting tripped up by a pun on an Americanism, as
illustrated by this exchange which allegedly took place on an American TV
quiz show:

Host: And what do you do for a living, madam?
Contestant: I'm a homemaker. And please don't call me "madam." Where I come
from that means someone who runs a house of ill repute.
Host: Oh really, madam?

Toon

2007-12-27 13:58:47 UTC

Post by Eric Bohlman

I think you're getting tripped up by a pun on an Americanism, as
illustrated by this exchange which allegedly took place on an American TV
Host: And what do you do for a living, madam?
Contestant: I'm a homemaker. And please don't call me "madam." Where I come
from that means someone who runs a house of ill repute.
Host: Oh really, madam?

Madam is an honorific like sir. As in letters to an unknown gender.
Dear Sir or Madam. It is a sign of respect. Calling a lady madam
implies prostitution as much as Santa going Ho Ho Ho does in
Australia. Some idiots think it does, but it's harmless.

Weird Beard

2007-12-21 04:38:00 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first name.
It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of Madam
Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.
--
Chris

OK, quote time: "On the contrary, I believe people speak very highly of
it."

Any guesses?

--
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je-ne-sais-quoi."
Peter Schickele

santosh

2007-12-21 09:15:46 UTC

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:28:32 GMT, Green-Eyed Chris

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?
(text or film)

No.
Hagrid, Fudge, McGonagall, and Dumbledore use Rosmerta as a first
name. It seems to be the last name that is never mentioned.
In contrast to Madam Rolanda Hooch, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Malkin and
Madam Marsh, this is most probably to be taken as an indication of
Madam Rosmerta's (former?) position in a house of ill repute.
--
Chris

OK, quote time: "On the contrary, I believe people speak very highly
of it."
Any guesses?

Madam Rosmerta's Oak matured mead?

Weird Beard

2007-12-21 11:47:43 UTC

Post by santosh

Post by Weird Beard
OK, quote time: "On the contrary, I believe people speak very highly
of it."
Any guesses?

Madam Rosmerta's Oak matured mead?

You're thinking completely the wrong way. What other book, in this case,
had the above quote in regards a house of ill repute?

--
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je-ne-sais-quoi."
Peter Schickele

John VanSickle

2007-12-20 14:39:24 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?

Rosmerta *is* her first name.

Regards,
John

Phil

2007-12-22 10:08:19 UTC

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?

Rosmerta *is* her first name.
Regards,
John

Thats what I thought !
Reading these I kept thinking...."thought it WAS her first name....have I
missed something all these books....?"
Sure her surname was mentioned at one point too.
The "house of ill repute" hints rang bells too.

Bill Blakely

2007-12-30 16:30:58 UTC

Post by Phil

Post by Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
Have we ever been told the first name of Madame Rosmerta?

Rosmerta *is* her first name.
Regards,
John

If you're a wizard with an itchy wand looking for a good time in
Hogsmeade, I have no doubt Rosmerta would be your best bet, but I
don't think it is implied that she runs a house of ill repute.

-----------------------------------------------
George W. Bush: Billions for Halliburton but not one cent for children's health care.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

2007-12-23 00:22:39 UTC

Have we ever been told the first name of Madam Rosmerta?

Rosmerta *is* her first name.

How do you know that? The narrator always calls her "Madam Rosmerta",
as do Ron & Harry, in the same respectful way as Madam Bones, Madame
Delacour, Madam Edgecombe, Madam Hooch, Madam Lestrange, Madam Malkin,
Madam Marchbanks, Madame Maxime, Madam Pince, Madam Pomfrey, Madam
Puddifoot, and Madam Umbridge. Where known they're all last names.

Okay, so Dumbledore, Fudge, Hagrid, Malfoy and McGonagall call her
"Rosmerta", but in those very paragraphs Rowling writes "Dumbledore",
"Fudge", "Hagrid", "Malfoy" and "McGonagall" - all last names.

Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!

Phil

2007-12-24 16:42:47 UTC

Have we ever been told the first name of Madam Rosmerta?

Rosmerta *is* her first name.

How do you know that? The narrator always calls her "Madam Rosmerta",

More a first name than a surname I'd have said.

Sirius Kase

2007-12-24 20:47:43 UTC

Post by Phil

Post by John VanSickle
Rosmerta *is* her first name.

How do you know that? The narrator always calls her "Madam Rosmerta",

More a first name than a surname I'd have said.

I've personally never known a Rosmerta, either first or surname. But,
Googling on "rosmerta -harry" brings up " in Gaulish Celtic
mythology, Rosmerta was the goddess of fire, warmth, and abundance",
the Scottish "Goddess of Business Success", and the "Gallic goddess of
prosperity, whose name means "great provider." According to the
Romans, she was the consort of "Mercury," Come to think of it, I
don't know whether Mercury is the god's first or last name. I don't
think gods and godesses have more than one name, so I can't find find
an example in the first 4 pages in Google where it is clearly a first
name or a surname. So, in order to be consistant with the other
usages of Madam, I'd guess it is her last name. But, why would she
address Dumbledore as Albus, when he calls her by her last name?

Toon

2007-12-25 14:42:39 UTC

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:47:43 -0800 (PST), Sirius Kase

Post by Sirius Kase
But, why would she
address Dumbledore as Albus, when he calls her by her last name?

In love with him, and trying to be less formal in hope of relaxing him
and getting him to open up to her. Poor dear didn't know he was gay.
And then he died. How heart broken she must be.

Phil

2007-12-25 23:08:23 UTC

Post by Phil