Professor Umbridge

[berilac]

Spoiler




Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

[mkahogan]

Post by berilac
Spoiler
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

Well, actually, Umbridge sent Dementors, but I still think she should have
been heavily punished. I think the voices that Harry and Luna heard were the
voices of their loved ones who had died: Harry's parents and Luna's mother.
--

"-the trouble is, humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things
that are worst for them."

-Albus Dumbledore-
"Harry looked up at him and saw a tear trickling down Dumbledore's face into
his long silver beard."

-Harry Potter and the Order of the
Phoenix-

[DOOPY]

she should have definitely been punished, Azkaban not being out of the
question at all although Azkaban isn't really as safe a prison now.

Post by mkahogan

Post by berilac
Spoiler
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a

term

Post by berilac
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

Well, actually, Umbridge sent Dementors, but I still think she should have
been heavily punished. I think the voices that Harry and Luna heard were the
voices of their loved ones who had died: Harry's parents and Luna's mother.
--
"-the trouble is, humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things
that are worst for them."
-Albus Dumbledore-
"Harry looked up at him and saw a tear trickling down Dumbledore's face into
his long silver beard."
-Harry Potter and the Order of the
Phoenix-

[rbrand]

Post by berilac
Spoiler
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

\
I'd lIke to introduce her to Fluffy. Or maybe Aragog. I doubt the Flying
Car would save her sorry butt!

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth "berilac" <***@neo.rr.com> on Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:12:39 GMT

(spoiler space retained - Book V spoilers, obviously)
.
..
...
....
.....
......
......
.......
........
.........
...........
..............
.....................
..............................
.......................................
.................................................
...........................................................
..........................................................................
......................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................................
.....................................................................................................................................
............................................................................................................................................................

Post by berilac
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?

Dementors. And... DID she? Can it be proven against her? In a court
wanting to avoid Ministry embarassment, with Umbridge getting a lot more
"she meant well, all for the best, etc" breaks than Harry did at the
Wizengamot?

I suppose the Ministry would be willing to throw her to the Dementors
(figuratively, now that there aren't any left at Azkaban) if necessary
to avoid embarassment -- but they aren't poised to blame *everything* on
her, so why bother? I think the Ministry would rather take the
opportunity presented by the now known Dementor desertion, and let
anyone who knows about the Dementors in Privet Drive assume they were
just early rebels who just happened to be there. No one's fault, really,
aside from using Dementors to guard Azkaban in the first place, and the
Ministry will try to direct attention away from that blunder. Just a
coincidence. Really. Officially.

Her career is stalled at best, finished at worst. A petty tyrant and
altogether too fond of excercising authority she gets from others, what
will it be like for her to have no more delegated authority? If it's
revenge you want, think of her living out her life in a minor ministry
post, administratively slapped down every time she tries to take more
authority than the NONE she is given. Heh!

Post by berilac
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?

I've only read the book once... but I think they broke her wand, and
more than that we are not told. We just know it was not fatal but it
really rattled her good, bwahaahaa. <--evil laugh

Post by berilac
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

Sirius?
Dead, in some fashion. Bodily translated to the afterlife? Body and life
gobbled silently up by a creature bound to or looking like the veil or
the archway? Just gone, like "phasers set on 'disintigrate'"? I wonder
if we'll ever know. But it really seems he is dead, Rowling won't bring
him back to us somehow.

Voices?
I really dunno here. Maybe they represent previous victims, or are a
part of the creature's or artifact's nature -- remember that the voices
tended to lure Harry to go closer, when he wasn't being distracted by a
battle. One of the many reasons I need to reread this book!



Elspeth, Hufflepuff (dismissed)
Broom: O-Cedar
Wand: Seven and a half inches, cedar, graphite core
Pets: Too numerous to be familiars
reply-to address: my name @kc.rr.com
chmod a+x /bin/Laden

[Melissa Houle]

Post by Elizabeth Naime
(spoiler space retained - Book V spoilers, obviously)
.
..
...
....
.....
......
......
.......
........
.........
...........
..............
.....................
..............................
.......................................
.................................................
...........................................................
..........................................................................
......................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................................
.....................................................................................................................................
............................................................................................................................................................

Post by berilac
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?

Dementors. And... DID she? Can it be proven against her? In a court
wanting to avoid Ministry embarassment, with Umbridge getting a lot more
"she meant well, all for the best, etc" breaks than Harry did at the
Wizengamot?
I suppose the Ministry would be willing to throw her to the Dementors
(figuratively, now that there aren't any left at Azkaban) if necessary
to avoid embarassment -- but they aren't poised to blame *everything* on
her, so why bother? I think the Ministry would rather take the
opportunity presented by the now known Dementor desertion, and let
anyone who knows about the Dementors in Privet Drive assume they were
just early rebels who just happened to be there. No one's fault, really,
aside from using Dementors to guard Azkaban in the first place, and the
Ministry will try to direct attention away from that blunder. Just a
coincidence. Really. Officially.

What I'd really like to see in book six is Umbridge's trial and the
testimony of Harry and his friends against her. I'm afraid you're
right about her wriggling out of the Dementor charge officially, but
the students of Hogwarts have quite a case against her. Harry and Lee
Jordan could get her for that blood quill, and probably a few other
students as well.

But... on second thought, I'm not sure Umbridge CAN get off on the
dementor charge. She confessed to having sent them because the
Ministry was keen to discredit and silence Harry and expel him from
Hogwarts on any charge, and there were SEVERAL witnesses to her
confession. (DUMB woman!)Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Luna and Neville, all
of whom would back Harry up. And...Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle Millicent
Bullstrode and the two other big Slytherins whose names I don't
remember right now. Even if they are hostile to Harry, they DID hear
her say that, and one of them might just have enough decency to come
forward and tell the truth. Even if she does manage to throw off the
dementor charge, Umbridge was all ready and willing to use the
Cruciatus curse on Harry. And again, she was about to do so in front
of several witnesses, half of whom were on Harry's side. More than
willing, eager, and they could hardly mistake her intentions. She was
only distracted by Hermione's diversion.

Now that it's proven that Harry and Dumbledore were telling the truth
all along, Fudge's credibility has been seriously gouged. They might
hush up the Dementors, but I think the Cruciatus curse will seal
Umbridge's fate. A lot of people will be shocked that the pro-tem
Headmistress of Hogwarts was prepared to use the Cruciatus curse on a
student, whether or not they're particularly kindly disposed toward
Harry. Certainly Arthur Weasley and Kingsley Shacklebolt would want
her head for that, and probably Amelia bones and the Hogwarts
examining team, too. Seeing how unpopular Umbridge will be, Fudge will
probably let her take the rap, and pronounce himself "Shocked, SHOCKED
that Prof. Umbridge could have so overstepped her authority.."

I think alas, that Sirius is truly gone, and has been transported to
some form of Wizard Afterlife. What got me in that scene was not so
much Sirius himself, but Harry's and Lupin's reaction, and the way
Lupin kept Harry from diving through that arch. Poor Lupin! The last
of his close school friends was irretrievably gone.

Melissa

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by Magnolia Mama
<snip>
OotP spoiler space
18
16
14
12
10
8
6
4
2
0

Umbridge is the perfect example of why
we Yanks burned some of our witches at the stake. In Umbridge's case,
I would gladly have lit the match.

We never burned witches at the stake in the US. One was pressed to death,
the others were hanged or died in prison.
=Tamar

Also, it was never about that sort of thing, and it is a great disservice to
those who died at that particular inquisition to make a statement such as
this.

No offense intended. I was trying to make a joke at the expense of a
fictional character. I assumed that witches _were_ burned back then,
and that, if given the chance, the Potter books might even address
that eventually.

While doing his homework at home one summer, Harry reads that genuine witches would just do a basic Freezing Charm when they are about to be burned and enjoy the tickling effect!

[Tim Bruening]

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

PP 674-675: When Fred and George hop on their brooms and fly off into
the sunset, why don't Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad blast them
with Stupefy Spells?

P 678: Peeves goes on a mischief rampage against Umbridge. Since Filch
is pro Umbridge, why doesn't he get the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron to
rein in Peeves. Does the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron oppose the
fiercely pro-Slytherin Umbridge?

P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
her fireplace. I have some other things she could try:

I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

II. Send to London for more truth serum (That incompetent Potions
teacher Snape says that he's out of truth serum, and will take a month
to make more. I think he's in league with Potter! Please send more
ASAP!).

[unknown]

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
PP 674-675: When Fred and George hop on their brooms and fly off into
the sunset, why don't Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad blast them
with Stupefy Spells?

Dunno

Post by Tim Bruening
P 678: Peeves goes on a mischief rampage against Umbridge. Since Filch
is pro Umbridge, why doesn't he get the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron to
rein in Peeves. Does the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron oppose the
fiercely pro-Slytherin Umbridge?

Perhaps Filch tried, but had the Bloody Baron the same attitude as the
teachers and just let Peeves go on with it.

Post by Tim Bruening
P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

Harry is not immune to the Cruciatus Curse (crucio), as we could see
in book 4. The fake Moody hade him immune to the Imperius Curse
(imperio), but Voldy demonstrated that Harry certainly is not immune
to "Crucio"

Post by Tim Bruening
II. Send to London for more truth serum (That incompetent Potions
teacher Snape says that he's out of truth serum, and will take a month
to make more. I think he's in league with Potter! Please send more
ASAP!).

Provided that there is a stock of this potion somewhere. As I recall,
Sanpe said in GoF that use of the potion is heavily overviewed by the
Ministry. Not that Umbridge will find that something to worry about,
but it might get difficult to get the potion.


~~~~~~~~~~~
LatH123

"Dear me, what's the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they don't even pay you well for it?"
- Lucius Malfoy.

[Magnolia Mama]

From: LatH123 <>

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

<snip>

Post by Tim Bruening
P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

Harry is not immune to the Cruciatus Curse (crucio), as we could see
in book 4. The fake Moody hade him immune to the Imperius Curse
(imperio), but Voldy demonstrated that Harry certainly is not immune
to "Crucio"

I think Tim's point was that Harry is immune to the *Imperius* curse, thus
Umbridge couldn't use it on him (though now I wonder how she would know
this); she could, however, use it on someone else to find out what he was up
to. However, I think there's enough evidence of her sadistic side to suggest
that using Crucio on Harry would've been much more satisfying to her.

MM

[unknown]

Post by Magnolia Mama

From: LatH123 <>

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

<snip>

Post by Tim Bruening
P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

Harry is not immune to the Cruciatus Curse (crucio), as we could see
in book 4. The fake Moody hade him immune to the Imperius Curse
(imperio), but Voldy demonstrated that Harry certainly is not immune
to "Crucio"

I think Tim's point was that Harry is immune to the *Imperius* curse, thus
Umbridge couldn't use it on him (though now I wonder how she would know
this);

Ooops, misread the "Imperius" there. As Umbridge was thinking of the
Cruciatus curse, I had that one in mind. Sorry, my bad :o)

Post by Magnolia Mama
she could, however, use it on someone else to find out what he was up
to. However, I think there's enough evidence of her sadistic side to suggest
that using Crucio on Harry would've been much more satisfying to her.
MM

I am not sure - could you use the Imperius curse to extract the truth?
You could just force someone "tell the truth"; but that would make
vitaserum and stuff kinda unnessasary.

~~~~~~~~~~~
LatH123

"Dear me, what's the use of being a disgrace to the name of wizard if they don't even pay you well for it?"
- Lucius Malfoy.

[Magnolia Mama]

From: LatH123 <>

Post by Magnolia Mama

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

<snip>

Post by Tim Bruening
P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

<snip>

Post by Magnolia Mama
she could, however, use it on someone else to find out what he was up
to. However, I think there's enough evidence of her sadistic side to suggest
that using Crucio on Harry would've been much more satisfying to her.

I am not sure - could you use the Imperius curse to extract the truth?
You could just force someone "tell the truth"; but that would make
vitaserum and stuff kinda unnessasary.

Perhaps Veritaserum exists for interrogators to question people without
having to resort to an Unforgivable Curse.

Even if the Imperius curse can only be used to force actions on the victim,
Umbridge might have directed Harry to reveal to her what he'd been doing in
the Requirement Room.

MM

[Tim Bruening]

Post by unknown

Post by Magnolia Mama

From: LatH123 <>

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

<snip>

Post by Tim Bruening
P 744-746: Umbridge wants Snape to give her some truth serum to use on
Harry Potter, but Snape says that he's out (due to Umbridge taking his
last bottle the last time she needed to question Harry Potter), and will
need a month to make more. Umbridge decides to use the Cruciatus Curse
to force out the identity of the person he was trying to contact through
I. Use the Imperius Curse on Harry's coconspirators to compel them to
tell the truth about Harry's intentions. (If Harry weren't immune to
that Curse, I would suggest using it on him!).

Harry is not immune to the Cruciatus Curse (crucio), as we could see
in book 4. The fake Moody hade him immune to the Imperius Curse
(imperio), but Voldy demonstrated that Harry certainly is not immune
to "Crucio"

I think Tim's point was that Harry is immune to the *Imperius* curse, thus
Umbridge couldn't use it on him (though now I wonder how she would know
this);

Ooops, misread the "Imperius" there. As Umbridge was thinking of the
Cruciatus curse, I had that one in mind. Sorry, my bad :o)

Post by Magnolia Mama
she could, however, use it on someone else to find out what he was up
to. However, I think there's enough evidence of her sadistic side to suggest
that using Crucio on Harry would've been much more satisfying to her.
MM

I am not sure - could you use the Imperius curse to extract the truth?
You could just force someone "tell the truth"; but that would make
vitaserum and stuff kinda unnessasary.

Just put someone under the Imperius Curse, then ORDER him to anwser your questions truthfully!

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
PP 674-675: When Fred and George hop on their brooms and fly off into
the sunset, why don't Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad blast them
with Stupefy Spells?
P 678: Peeves goes on a mischief rampage against Umbridge. Since Filch
is pro Umbridge, why doesn't he get the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron to
rein in Peeves. Does the Slytherin ghost Bloody Baron oppose the
fiercely pro-Slytherin Umbridge?

Why doesn't the Inquisitorial Squad use their magic powers to eliminate the
Fred and George swamp?

[HELENA]

Post by Tim Bruening

Post by Tim Bruening
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
PP 674-675: When Fred and George hop on their brooms and fly off into
the sunset, why don't Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad blast them
with Stupefy Spells?

Taken by surprise?

Post by Tim Bruening
Why doesn't the Inquisitorial Squad use their magic powers to eliminate the
Fred and George swamp?

Because it's a seriously clever bit of magic. That's why Flitwick
leaves a bit as a memorial. I doubt any of the IS could undo the spell.
HELENA

[Frank Ney]

My review, which will appear next Sunday, will delve into this a bit.


Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO ProvNRA LPWV
--
"Apparently on New Texas, killing a politician wasn't regarded as _malum in se_,
and was _malum prohibitorum_ only to the extent that what the politician got was
in excess of what he deserved."
-H. Beam Piper, _Lone Star Planet/A Planet For Texans_
United Airlines Must Die! http://www.dont-fly.com
Abuses by the BATF http://www.elfie.org/~croaker/batfabus.html

[StrikitRich]

Post by berilac
Spoiler

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Post by berilac
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

I got the impression that Fudge didn't know that Umbridge had sent those
Dementors.

If that's the case, why did she use Ministry power to send the Dementors
against Harry? Just blind hatred? What caused this? While no link between
her and the Death Eaters was made, I'd bet that there was one.

SR1

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by berilac
Spoiler
Does anyone have a good reason why Professor Umbridge did not receive a term
in Azkaban prison for sending those two death eaters to get Harry?
Also, I don't remember reading what the centaurs did to her?
Who were the voices that Harry and Luna heard by the curtains and is there
any significance that is where Sirius ended up?

Book 6: Umbridge is still working at the MoM. Why didn't the MoM fire her after her numerous missteps?