Snape theory *Spoiler Alert*

[doodles]

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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.

1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.

Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.

Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.

Just a theory.

[news.west.cox.net]

Post by doodles
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

totaly agree

[Admiralla]

Post by news.west.cox.net

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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almost...just a little further
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

totaly agree

Hmm yeah.... very interesting thoughts. I agree with that too... It should
be cool to see if you're right...

[Brendan Gray]

Post by news.west.cox.net

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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almost...just a little further
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

totaly agree

I agree as well. I've only read a few dozen posts on this newsgroup,
and no one has brought up the unbreakable vow that Snape entered into?
While standing there, Snape had to make a decision. That is, if the
unbreakable vow was allowing him to think, we don't know too much about
it, except if you break it, you die. He either had to break the vow,
and die himself, or fullfill it, and kill Dumbledore.

But maybe, he rationalized it to himself, that with Dumbledore dead, but
Snape still is on the inside with Voldemort, and can still help bring
about his destruction?

Maybe Dumbledore is kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi. He may have died, but
Luke is still around to fight Vader and the Empire.

Brendan

[felix_felicis]

have to agree with most points. dumbledore always said that there are
things worse than death. we have all heard that we'd be hearing more
about snape and we'd be hearing more about lily. snape is a supreme
double agent and actor;but in the end he will help harry or the order.

i always thought that it would be ironic if harry and snape became
friends in the end. there was a tip in the last movie....... lupin
talks about lily's cabability to see the best in people.

[gjw]

Post by Brendan Gray

Post by doodles
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I agree as well. I've only read a few dozen posts on this newsgroup,
and no one has brought up the unbreakable vow that Snape entered into?
While standing there, Snape had to make a decision. That is, if the
unbreakable vow was allowing him to think, we don't know too much about
it, except if you break it, you die. He either had to break the vow,
and die himself, or fullfill it, and kill Dumbledore.
But maybe, he rationalized it to himself, that with Dumbledore dead, but
Snape still is on the inside with Voldemort, and can still help bring
about his destruction?

Or maybe Snape is just a coward. When faced with the choice of dying
a noble death or saving his own skin, he (like Wormtail) chose to kill
the only man who had befriended him.

It would explain why he was so sensitive to being called a coward
after the fact...

[Malte]

Post by gjw

Post by Brendan Gray

Post by doodles
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I agree as well. I've only read a few dozen posts on this newsgroup,
and no one has brought up the unbreakable vow that Snape entered into?
While standing there, Snape had to make a decision. That is, if the
unbreakable vow was allowing him to think, we don't know too much about
it, except if you break it, you die. He either had to break the vow,
and die himself, or fullfill it, and kill Dumbledore.
But maybe, he rationalized it to himself, that with Dumbledore dead, but
Snape still is on the inside with Voldemort, and can still help bring
about his destruction?

Or maybe Snape is just a coward. When faced with the choice of dying
a noble death or saving his own skin, he (like Wormtail) chose to kill
the only man who had befriended him.
It would explain why he was so sensitive to being called a coward
after the fact...

you're thinking of McFly in Back to the Future... I strongly feel that
Snape is deeper! IMHO...

[Tage]

I'm a tad conflicted about the whole unbreakable vow thing which Snape
entered in to. If I remember correctly, he promised to help and protect
Malfoy from harm. Malfoy was in no direct harm when he was cornering
Dumbledore with the other Death Eaters- Dumbledore was incapacitated and
Harry was frozen. It seems to me that by killing Dumbledore, Snape was
putting Malfoy at an even greater risk of being punished, because even
though Dumbledore was dead, Malfoy still failed to complete his task.
Snape also claimed to know what Malfoy's task was when he, Snape, was
confronted by Malfoy's mother. However, his dialogue with Malfoy throughout
the novel suggested that Snape didn't know at all what Malfoy was truley up
to, and he certainly didn't give Malfoy any direct help or protection. If
you ask me, there was more to Snape killing Dumbledore than Snape simply
wanting to save his own life.

Post by Brendan Gray

Post by news.west.cox.net

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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almost...just a little further
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in

book

Post by Brendan Gray

Post by news.west.cox.net

Post by doodles
7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

totaly agree

I agree as well. I've only read a few dozen posts on this newsgroup,
and no one has brought up the unbreakable vow that Snape entered into?
While standing there, Snape had to make a decision. That is, if the
unbreakable vow was allowing him to think, we don't know too much about
it, except if you break it, you die. He either had to break the vow,
and die himself, or fullfill it, and kill Dumbledore.
But maybe, he rationalized it to himself, that with Dumbledore dead, but
Snape still is on the inside with Voldemort, and can still help bring
about his destruction?
Maybe Dumbledore is kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi. He may have died, but
Luke is still around to fight Vader and the Empire.
Brendan

[Mightycrouton]

I agree. There were too many hints placed in the book suggesting
Dumbledore knew what was to become of him and Snape was forced into
that terrible position out of loyalty to Dumbledore.

To me, I still feel like Snape is a genuinely good character despite a
few setbacks. If you notice, his classes are the most useful of all of
the other classes. He's practically preparing Harry Potter for the
worst, particularily when he teaches the nonverbal spells - which I
think are going to prove to be the most important piece of teaching on
their fight towards Voldemort.

Even during the Snape-and-Harry showdown, Snape is constantly provoking
and pushing Harry to show his best. If Harry can't defeat Snape, then
what good is he against Voldemort?

JKRowling constanty emphasizes in her books to trust the people
Dumbledore trusts. Even though he sees the surpreme good in people, he
still knows a bad apple from a bad apple. He certainly didn't let
Voldemort have that DADA job and he was unforgiving of Fenrir Greyback,
but for some reason he trusts Snape above all other people - even in
the very end. So I'm forced to also trust Snape - to the end.

[r***@hotmail.com]

I agree with all your comments and I obviously think that Snape was
acting in Dumbledore's orders (too obviously bad, I can't believe she
would portray him as obscure and then reveal him before book seven).
One more possible theory, though: could Lily somehow saved Snape's life
and he is in debt with her? He was responsible for her death, so now
his debt is with Harry, who looks so much like the person he hated but
has his mother's eyes. Maybe she spared his life, like Harry did with
Warmtail, by asking James not to kill him in his Death Eater days.
Still, I would rather see the love story, I think Snape deserves to
have some more human feelings than what he has shown so far.

[Victoria Ckret]

Post by Mightycrouton
I agree. There were too many hints placed in the book suggesting
Dumbledore knew what was to become of him and Snape was forced into
that terrible position out of loyalty to Dumbledore.
To me, I still feel like Snape is a genuinely good character despite a
few setbacks. If you notice, his classes are the most useful of all of
the other classes. He's practically preparing Harry Potter for the
worst, particularily when he teaches the nonverbal spells - which I
think are going to prove to be the most important piece of teaching on
their fight towards Voldemort.
Even during the Snape-and-Harry showdown, Snape is constantly provoking
and pushing Harry to show his best. If Harry can't defeat Snape, then
what good is he against Voldemort?
JKRowling constanty emphasizes in her books to trust the people
Dumbledore trusts. Even though he sees the surpreme good in people, he
still knows a bad apple from a bad apple. He certainly didn't let
Voldemort have that DADA job and he was unforgiving of Fenrir Greyback,
but for some reason he trusts Snape above all other people - even in
the very end. So I'm forced to also trust Snape - to the end.

I just remebered - the part that Snape and Dumbledore was having a fight
about something and Dumbledore said Snape promised he would do even if he
didn't want to.

[IMS]

On 20 Jul 2005 12:56:19 -0700, "Mightycrouton"

Post by Mightycrouton
I agree. There were too many hints placed in the book suggesting
Dumbledore knew what was to become of him and Snape was forced into
that terrible position out of loyalty to Dumbledore.
To me, I still feel like Snape is a genuinely good character despite a
few setbacks. If you notice, his classes are the most useful of all of
the other classes. He's practically preparing Harry Potter for the
worst, particularily when he teaches the nonverbal spells - which I
think are going to prove to be the most important piece of teaching on
their fight towards Voldemort.
Even during the Snape-and-Harry showdown, Snape is constantly provoking
and pushing Harry to show his best. If Harry can't defeat Snape, then
what good is he against Voldemort?
JKRowling constanty emphasizes in her books to trust the people
Dumbledore trusts. Even though he sees the surpreme good in people, he
still knows a bad apple from a bad apple. He certainly didn't let
Voldemort have that DADA job and he was unforgiving of Fenrir Greyback,
but for some reason he trusts Snape above all other people - even in
the very end. So I'm forced to also trust Snape - to the end.

Well said. Same here. After re-reading some of those parts, and
reading the good comments on this NG I now cannot believe that DD would
have made that big of a mistake. There are indeed too many hints and
too many 'coincidences' like knowingly putting Snape in a position that,
because of TOm Riddle, has only been held for one year by each teacher
unlucky enough to take it.

-Irene



--------------
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
--Mae West
--------------

[Dinali]

I agree that Snape was really trying to prepair Harry for the final
battle. In the chapter "flight of the halfblood prince", Snape says
Harry that he wouldn't attack him ".....till you learn to close your
mind and shut your mouth". He's trying to get him to learn Occlumency
and Non-Verble spells. Snape is trying his best to prepair Harry for
the final battle. So I trust Snape just like DD did.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Dinali
I agree that Snape was really trying to prepair Harry for the final
battle. In the chapter "flight of the halfblood prince", Snape says
Harry that he wouldn't attack him ".....till you learn to close your
mind and shut your mouth". He's trying to get him to learn Occlumency
and Non-Verble spells. Snape is trying his best to prepair Harry for
the final battle. So I trust Snape just like DD did.

Snape said that Harry's attacks would be deflected again and again until Harry learned to keep his mind and mouth shut.

[Stephen Ray]

Post by Tage

Post by doodles
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I'm a tad conflicted about the whole unbreakable vow thing which Snape
entered in to. If I remember correctly, he promised to help and protect
Malfoy from harm. Malfoy was in no direct harm when he was cornering
Dumbledore with the other Death Eaters- Dumbledore was incapacitated and
Harry was frozen. It seems to me that by killing Dumbledore, Snape was
putting Malfoy at an even greater risk of being punished, because even
though Dumbledore was dead, Malfoy still failed to complete his task.
Snape also claimed to know what Malfoy's task was when he, Snape, was
confronted by Malfoy's mother. However, his dialogue with Malfoy throughout
the novel suggested that Snape didn't know at all what Malfoy was truley up
to, and he certainly didn't give Malfoy any direct help or protection. If
you ask me, there was more to Snape killing Dumbledore than Snape simply
wanting to save his own life.

He also promised to perform Malfoy's task if it looked like Malfoy would
fail. It looked like Malfoy WAS going to fail, and so Snape
completed it.

I've got a Snape theory myself: SNAPE HAS BEEN EVIL THE WHOLE TIME, JUST
LIKE HE HIMSELF SAYS IN CHAPTER 2!!!

Stephen

[Louis Epstein]

Tage <***@rogers.com> wrote:
: I'm a tad conflicted about the whole unbreakable vow thing which Snape
: entered in to. If I remember correctly, he promised to help and protect
: Malfoy from harm. Malfoy was in no direct harm when he was cornering
: Dumbledore with the other Death Eaters- Dumbledore was incapacitated and
: Harry was frozen. It seems to me that by killing Dumbledore, Snape was
: putting Malfoy at an even greater risk of being punished, because even
: though Dumbledore was dead, Malfoy still failed to complete his task.

An intriguing tangent here.

Did Dumbledore freeze Harry to protect Draco from Harry
so that Snape would not suffer because Harry harmed Draco?

: Snape also claimed to know what Malfoy's task was when he, Snape, was
: confronted by Malfoy's mother. However, his dialogue with Malfoy throughout
: the novel suggested that Snape didn't know at all what Malfoy was truley up
: to, and he certainly didn't give Malfoy any direct help or protection. If
: you ask me, there was more to Snape killing Dumbledore than Snape simply
: wanting to save his own life.

I believe that Dumbledore deliberately contrived to die at Snape's hands,
but am not inclined to believe that he was wise to do this.If Harry winds
up having to trust Snape to succeed,it doesn't say much for Harry's
capabilities.

: "Brendan Gray" <***@domain.com> wrote in message
: news:XnhDe.76806$%***@lakeread08...
:> news.west.cox.net wrote:
:> > "doodles" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:> > news:ZlgDe.4192$***@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
:> >
:> >>SPOILER SPACE
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:> >>*
:> >>almost...just a little further
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>*
:> >>I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
:> >>motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot
:> >>resolutions in book 7.
:> >>
:> >>1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
:> >>2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and
:> >>then informed Voldomort about it.
:> >>3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
:> >>"you can't control who you fall in love with"
:> >>4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
:> >>about Harry's father, but not his mother
:> >>5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
:> >>Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
:> >>6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
:> >>negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
:> >>
:> >>Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school,
:> >>beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part
:> >>of Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of
:> >>Snape's dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he
:> >>overheard, he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he
:> >>told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings
:> >>for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust
:> >>Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
:> >>anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
:> >>Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
:> >>orders, not Voldemort's.
:> >>
:> >>Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility
:> >>toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could
:> >>never have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't
:> >>help that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the
:> >>end, Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7
:> >>has to be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
:> >>
:> >>Just a theory.
:> >>
:> >>
:> >
:> >
:> > totaly agree
:>
:> I agree as well. I've only read a few dozen posts on this newsgroup,
:> and no one has brought up the unbreakable vow that Snape entered into?
:> While standing there, Snape had to make a decision. That is, if the
:> unbreakable vow was allowing him to think, we don't know too much about
:> it, except if you break it, you die. He either had to break the vow,
:> and die himself, or fullfill it, and kill Dumbledore.
:>
:> But maybe, he rationalized it to himself, that with Dumbledore dead, but
:> Snape still is on the inside with Voldemort, and can still help bring
:> about his destruction?
:>
:> Maybe Dumbledore is kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi. He may have died, but
:> Luke is still around to fight Vader and the Empire.
:>
:> Brendan
:

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[Dinali]

This is much similar to my theory ("Neither Snape nor Draco is evil").
So I totally agree that Snape killed DD on DD's orders.

[IMS]

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:58:35 -0700, "news.west.cox.net"

Post by news.west.cox.net

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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almost...just a little further
*
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

totaly agree

Same here. It's very well thought out.

-Irene


--------------
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
--Mae West
--------------

[Tage]

I would have to agree completely, and I've postulated similar ideas here as
well.
People have suggested that Snape may have tutored Lily at potions, which
explained how they met and how he may have become infatuated with her.
But what if it was the other way around? What if it was Lily who tutored
Snape? It would give even greater strength to the 'Snape loves Lily'
argument because Lilyw ould have been one of the few people who actually
showed him any kindness.

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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almost...just a little further
*
*
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*
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*
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[Epi]

Post by Tage
I would have to agree completely, and I've postulated similar ideas here as
well.
People have suggested that Snape may have tutored Lily at potions, which
explained how they met and how he may have become infatuated with her.
But what if it was the other way around? What if it was Lily who tutored
Snape? It would give even greater strength to the 'Snape loves Lily'
argument because Lilyw ould have been one of the few people who actually
showed him any kindness.

I regrettably have to disagree. I don't think that Snape and Lily had
much liking for each others. From the book 5, chapter 28, 'Snape's Worst
Memory':

(James teasing Snape, Lily coming to rescue)
'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and
Sirius eyed it warily.
'Ah, Evans, don't make me hex you,' said James earnestly.
'Take the curse off him, then!'
James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the counter-curse.
'There you go,' he said, as Snape struggled to his feet. 'You're lucky
Evans was here, Sninellus -'
'I don't need help from filthy little Midbloods like her!'
Lily blinked.
'Fine,' she said coolly. 'I won't bother in the future. And I'd wash
your pants if I were you, Snivellus.'

[Alex Clark]

Post by Epi
James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the counter-curse.
'There you go,' he said, as Snape struggled to his feet. 'You're lucky
Evans was here, Sninellus -'
'I don't need help from filthy little Midbloods like her!'

But why is this Snape's worst memory? Hasn't he faced deadlier attacks,
seen or even committed murders, etc.? Maybe it's his worst memory
because Lily witnessed it, or because of what he said about her. And
notice that he didn't say it to her, he said it to James. Maybe he only
said such a thing about her because he was angry and embarrassed.

--
Alex Clark

Am I Lord Voldemort? (the last anagram rejected by Tom Riddle)

[A***@hotmail.com]

It means from that point onwards, "In the future..." as Lily says, Lily
won't help Snape. But doesn't that suggest that Snape's prejudice is a
recent thing and Lily has helped Snape in the past?

Did you notice how wary Sirius was when Lily took out her wand? Why
would he be wary unless Lily has already interfered with their Snape
taunting sessions before?

This particular memory was one of Snape's worse memories. Perhaps
it's not the worst memory because James Potter took his pants off,
but worst because he said something unforgivably rude to someone that
until then had been a friend?

[Tage]

And maybe not even a real friend, but perhaps someone he wanted to impress
and was quite fond of.

Post by A***@hotmail.com
It means from that point onwards, "In the future..." as Lily says, Lily
won't help Snape. But doesn't that suggest that Snape's prejudice is a
recent thing and Lily has helped Snape in the past?
Did you notice how wary Sirius was when Lily took out her wand? Why
would he be wary unless Lily has already interfered with their Snape
taunting sessions before?
This particular memory was one of Snape's worse memories. Perhaps
it's not the worst memory because James Potter took his pants off,
but worst because he said something unforgivably rude to someone that
until then had been a friend?

[k***@cs.com]

Post by A***@hotmail.com
It means from that point onwards, "In the future..." as Lily says,
Lily won't help Snape. But doesn't that suggest that Snape's
prejudice is a recent thing and Lily has helped Snape in the past?
Did you notice how wary Sirius was when Lily took out her wand? Why
would he be wary unless Lily has already interfered with their
Snape taunting sessions before?

When somebody takes out a wand in that situation, it implies they mean
to use it. Even if you have never met them before, it is a safe
assumption.

Post by A***@hotmail.com
This particular memory was one of Snape's worse memories. Perhaps
it's not the worst memory because James Potter took his pants off,
but worst because he said something unforgivably rude to someone
that until then had been a friend?

Two things:

Firstly, we didn't even get to SEE the bad part. Remember, James was
in a GOOD MOOD during the initial attack, the part that we saw. He was
just showing off for Sirius.

It is after Lily bad-mouths him publicly, and then walks away, that
James is humiliated and angry. THAT is when we see him rounding on
Snape in a fury, and declaring "Who wants to see me take Snivelus pants
off." The REALLY nasty part of the attack is JUST GETTING STARTED when
adult Snape shows up, and drags Harry out of it.

Secondly, the fact that it was PUBLIC would have made it worse. I have
seen this mentioned in a psychological profile of somebody, where he
was punished physically all the time at home, but one occasion where
his uncle exposed and whipped him in front of other people created a
permanent state of trauma.

Anybody can have something bad happen to them. But in context, the
fact that everyone admired what James was doing, the fact that James
was popular with students and staff, and that he actually went on to
become Head Boy, carries with it the message to Snape and anybody else
James picked on that they are worthless and don't matter.

If THAT is the pscyhological effect that the incident had on Snape,
then it would surely be his worst memory, no matter how many other
painful experiences he has had. The death of a loved one, for example,
can be painful at the time, without DAMAGING one permanently.

[Mightycrouton]

Post by Epi

Post by Tage
I would have to agree completely, and I've postulated similar ideas here as
well.
People have suggested that Snape may have tutored Lily at potions, which
explained how they met and how he may have become infatuated with her.
But what if it was the other way around? What if it was Lily who tutored
Snape? It would give even greater strength to the 'Snape loves Lily'
argument because Lilyw ould have been one of the few people who actually
showed him any kindness.

I regrettably have to disagree. I don't think that Snape and Lily had
much liking for each others. From the book 5, chapter 28, 'Snape's Worst
(James teasing Snape, Lily coming to rescue)
'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and
Sirius eyed it warily.
'Ah, Evans, don't make me hex you,' said James earnestly.
'Take the curse off him, then!'
James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the counter-curse.
'There you go,' he said, as Snape struggled to his feet. 'You're lucky
Evans was here, Sninellus -'
'I don't need help from filthy little Midbloods like her!'
Lily blinked.
'Fine,' she said coolly. 'I won't bother in the future. And I'd wash
your pants if I were you, Snivellus.'

I know that this is Snape's Worst Memory.
But ever thought that maybe it's Snape's worst memory, not because of
the circumstances that surrounded the Marauders, but because this is
the only time Lily ever calls him 'Snivellus' or that he's forced to
call her a Mudblood to protect his own skin in front of classmates who
would otherwise misinterpret a kind gesture towards Lily -
particularily since Snape is a Slytherine?
Think about it. In this memory, Lily's actions are especially
emphasized. JKRowling could have written out the same
Marauder's-treating-Snape-Terribly story WITHOUT Lily involved and
still kept the same effect. But she didn't. She obviously addressed
Lily into this memory as an important part.

Snape's Worst Memory maybe considered his 'Worst Memory' solely because
Lily Evans was involved and...
1) Saw him in a humiliating situation
2) Called him Snivellus, and insulted him
3) Was the first time he met Lily and therefore be ensnared by her

[noesy_parker]

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
almost...just a little further
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot
resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and
then informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
"you can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
about Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's
hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school,
beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's
dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard,
he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told
Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for
Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust
Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
orders, not Voldemort's.

Snape's love for Lily may also explain why Voldemort offer Lily the
chance to stay alive when he could have just killed her like James.
Snape, knowing that Voldemort was going after Lily and James, may have
begged Voldemort to spare her beforehand.

Post by doodles
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility
toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never
have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help
that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end,
Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to
be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[Tage]

Or, Voldemort may have rewarded Snape for telling him of the prophecy by
letting him have Lily after Harry and his father were dead. Voldemort may
have been evil, but he was also an expert manipulator, and I'm sure he knew
the value of rewarding loyalty.

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
almost...just a little further
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot
resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and
then informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
"you can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
about Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's
hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school,
beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's
dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard,
he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told
Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for
Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust
Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
orders, not Voldemort's.

Snape's love for Lily may also explain why Voldemort offer Lily the
chance to stay alive when he could have just killed her like James.
Snape, knowing that Voldemort was going after Lily and James, may have
begged Voldemort to spare her beforehand.

Post by doodles
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility
toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never
have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help
that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end,
Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to
be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[A***@hotmail.com]

What would have been the point of Voldemort giving Lily to Snape? Lily
had already made her choice. She had married Potter, not Snape. It's
not much of an incentive to give Snape a girl who has already chosen
someone else.

Yes, Snape could have used a love potion on Lily, but we already know
his attitude to love potions from Book 2 (the first person who even
mentioned them would be 'forcefed poison'!)

Voldemort's mother used a love potion on Voldemort's father and we know
how well that turned out. ;-) Don't you think Snape would have known
that?

[A***@hotmail.com]

Sorry about the posts that haven't got any of the text I was replying
to - I was using Google's 'reply' feature and I was under the
impression that it automatically added the text I was replying to.

I'll be more careful in the future.

[Julie]

Post by A***@hotmail.com
What would have been the point of Voldemort giving Lily to Snape? Lily
had already made her choice. She had married Potter, not Snape. It's
not much of an incentive to give Snape a girl who has already
chosen
someone else.
Yes, Snape could have used a love potion on Lily, but we already know
his attitude to love potions from Book 2 (the first person who
even
mentioned them would be 'forcefed poison'!)
Voldemort's mother used a love potion on Voldemort's father and we know
how well that turned out. ;-) Don't you think Snape would have
known
that?

Ahhh the Imperius curse would have worked on her though

[A***@hotmail.com]

Post by Julie
Ahhh the Imperius curse would have worked on her though

Snape gets to be married to a vegetable? Some prize... ;-)

[Julie]

Post by A***@hotmail.com

Post by Julie
Ahhh the Imperius curse would have worked on her though

Snape gets to be married to a vegetable? Some prize... ;-)

I take your point, would it have mattered to him?

[Louis Epstein]

Julie <***@hotkey.net.au> wrote:
:
: <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
:> >Ahhh the Imperius curse would have worked on her though
:>
:> Snape gets to be married to a vegetable? Some prize... ;-)
:>
:
: I take your point, would it have mattered to him?

I wonder how effectively she could have resisted (see the
example of the Crouches) though the curse could have been
reinforced.

Who knows...perhaps McGonagall has been Voldemort's
deep-cover girlfriend ever since they were at school
together...

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Julie

Post by A***@hotmail.com
What would have been the point of Voldemort giving Lily to Snape? Lily
had already made her choice. She had married Potter, not Snape. It's
not much of an incentive to give Snape a girl who has already chosen
someone else.
Yes, Snape could have used a love potion on Lily, but we already know
his attitude to love potions from Book 2 (the first person who even
mentioned them would be 'forcefed poison'!)
Voldemort's mother used a love potion on Voldemort's father and we know
how well that turned out. ;-) Don't you think Snape would have known
that?

Ahhh the Imperius curse would have worked on her though

Until Lilly learned how to resist it.

[Louis Epstein]

***@hotmail.com wrote:
: What would have been the point of Voldemort giving Lily to Snape? Lily
: had already made her choice. She had married Potter, not Snape. It's
: not much of an incentive to give Snape a girl who has already chosen
: someone else.
:
: Yes, Snape could have used a love potion on Lily, but we already know
: his attitude to love potions from Book 2 (the first person who even
: mentioned them would be 'forcefed poison'!)
:
: Voldemort's mother used a love potion on Voldemort's father and we know
: how well that turned out. ;-) Don't you think Snape would have known
: that?

It wouldn't have been a love potion,but the Imperius Curse,
that would have bound Lily to Snape.

(And is that how Snape got Dumbledore to trust him?)

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by A***@hotmail.com
What would have been the point of Voldemort giving Lily to Snape? Lily
had already made her choice. She had married Potter, not Snape. It's
not much of an incentive to give Snape a girl who has already chosen
someone else.
Yes, Snape could have used a love potion on Lily, but we already know
his attitude to love potions from Book 2 (the first person who even
mentioned them would be 'forcefed poison'!)
Voldemort's mother used a love potion on Voldemort's father and we know
how well that turned out. ;-) Don't you think Snape would have known
that?

How much did Snape know about Voldemort's parents? Did he know about Merope using love potion on Tom Riddle Sr.

[Nikki Suydam]

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
almost...just a little further
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot
resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and
then informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
"you can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
about Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's
hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school,
beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's
dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard,
he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told
Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for
Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust
Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
orders, not Voldemort's.

Snape's love for Lily may also explain why Voldemort offer Lily the
chance to stay alive when he could have just killed her like James.
Snape, knowing that Voldemort was going after Lily and James, may have
begged Voldemort to spare her beforehand.

Post by doodles
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility
toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never
have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help
that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end,
Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to
be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

If one accepts this theory, then Snape's hatred of Harry could also stem
from his resentment of Harry as the person for whom Lily gave up her life.
In essence, Lily chose Harry over life (and Snape). It wouldn't be too far
a leap to believe that Snape blames Harry (as opposed to Voldemort or
himself) for Lily's death.

[Julie]

noesy_parker at

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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*
*
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting
plot
resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the
prophecy, and
then informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
"you can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
about Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at
Snape's
hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at
school,
beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions.
Part of
Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of
Snape's
dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he
overheard,
he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told
Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for
Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could
trust
Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save
Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
orders, not Voldemort's.

Snape's love for Lily may also explain why Voldemort offer Lily the
chance to stay alive when he could have just killed her like
James.
Snape, knowing that Voldemort was going after Lily and James,
may have
begged Voldemort to spare her beforehand.

Post by doodles
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of
responsibility
toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he
could never
have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help
that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end,
Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to
be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

If one accepts this theory, then Snape's hatred of Harry could
also stem
from his resentment of Harry as the person for whom Lily gave up her life.
In essence, Lily chose Harry over life (and Snape). It wouldn't be too far
a leap to believe that Snape blames Harry (as opposed to
Voldemort or
himself) for Lily's death.

Many men in history have blamed the child for the mother's death in
childbirth how is this different?

[Malte]

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
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do we really need *that* much spoiler space?

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
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ok, here we go...

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's
motivation for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot
resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and
then informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that
"you can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks
about Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which
Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a
negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's
hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school,
beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's
dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard,
he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told
Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for
Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust
Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to
anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own
orders, not Voldemort's.

Snape's love for Lily may also explain why Voldemort offer Lily the
chance to stay alive when he could have just killed her like James.
Snape, knowing that Voldemort was going after Lily and James, may have
begged Voldemort to spare her beforehand.

that *might* help explaining, why he came back to the Light Side... He
reallized that the Dark Lord - even though he demands total loyalty from
his retainers/followers - doesn't keep a promise unless it serves his
own purpose.

Post by noesy_parker

Post by doodles
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility
toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never
have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help
that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end,
Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to
be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[Sky]

Now this makes sense.. I think you nailed it...

Sky

Post by doodles
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[t***@yahoo.com]

Post by doodles
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

I agree; lot of people (self included) have been expressing similar
opinons here. I just have two more things to add.

It has been mentioned that Harry looks just like his father; which no
doubt serves to further aggravate Snape. But he has his mother eyes -
which is what makes Snape loyal to Harry. Perhaps that is what JKR
hinted when she said the color of Harry's eyes could play an important
role in future books.

Which brings us to the second point. Perhaps this is why Dumbledore
told Voldemort that love is a power stronger than all his dark arts. We
assume it applies specifically to Harry - but why not to snape too?
Perhaps it was love that made Snape give up his life's obession - The
Dark Arts. It was love that enabled Snape to betray his master despite
all the threats of monstrous punishment Voldemort reserved for
betrayers.

Third point, a nitpick: Snape turned against Voldemort not after Lily
was killed but as soon as he realised the implication of the Prophesy.
Remember Snape telling Harry that he was as arrogant as his father who
died because he refused to believe that Sirius could betray him.

[A***@hotmail.com]

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

A very interesting theory. I can think of another event that seems to
support the 'Snape loved Lily' theory.

A stray comment by Aunt Petunia, makes me suspect that Snape and Lily
were close enough to have visited each other's home during break
time. I don't have the books near me so I can't quote title and
page name, but I recall Petunia mentioning Lily talking to a
"horrible boy". Harry asks her something like 'If it's my
father, why don't you use his name?' but Petunia doesn't confirm
that the horrible boy is James Potter. This makes me think that the
horrible boy is not James, but Snape. We know from the Pensieve that
Snape was an extremely horrible-looking boy, so the term fits Snape
much better than it fits James.

In Book 7, Harry, Hermione and Ron will be visiting Harry's relatives
one last time. Can you imagine the scene when Harry tells them what
just happened? Aunt Petunia might actually have the chance to be useful
again:

Harry: Severus Snape was the one who betrayed Lily and James to their
deaths. Dumbledore said Snape tried to save my Mum, and was remorseful
about her death, but he also told me that Snape was trustworthy and
Snape just murdered Dumbledore.

Petunia: Severus Snape? The same Severus Snape who came over to my
parent's house to visit Lily when she was going to that awful magic
school? No, you're lying. I knew him. Foul-looking kid but he was
Lily's best friend for years. They used to help each other out with
potions. He'd never have killed her.

Harry: You mean Dumbledore was right about Snape being remorseful all
along? Does that mean that Dumbledore was right about Snape being
trustworthy?

[Harry's jaw drops as the Clue Fairy strikes him viciously about the
head]

[Klaus Winkler]

Post by A***@hotmail.com

Post by doodles
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A very interesting theory. I can think of another event that seems to
support the 'Snape loved Lily' theory.
A stray comment by Aunt Petunia, makes me suspect that Snape and Lily
were close enough to have visited each other's home during break
time. I don't have the books near me so I can't quote title and
page name, but I recall Petunia mentioning Lily talking to a
"horrible boy". Harry asks her something like 'If it's my
father, why don't you use his name?' but Petunia doesn't confirm
that the horrible boy is James Potter.

Nice theory, but I think you're reading too much into it.

Being a wizard was certainly horrible enough for Petunia.

[~consul]

Post by A***@hotmail.com

Post by doodles
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A very interesting theory. I can think of another event that seems to
support the 'Snape loved Lily' theory.
A stray comment by Aunt Petunia, makes me suspect that Snape and Lily
were close enough to have visited each other's home during break
time. I don't have the books near me so I can't quote title and
page name, but I recall Petunia mentioning Lily talking to a
"horrible boy". Harry asks her something like 'If it's my
father, why don't you use his name?' but Petunia doesn't confirm
that the horrible boy is James Potter. This makes me think that the
horrible boy is not James, but Snape. We know from the Pensieve that
Snape was an extremely horrible-looking boy, so the term fits Snape
much better than it fits James.

Excellent connections. Works very much for me. :)

[Dave]

Also sprach ~consul <***@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> :

:***@hotmail.com wrote:
:>>SPOILER SPACE
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:>>*
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:>>almost...just a little further
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:> A very interesting theory. I can think of another event that seems to
:> support the 'Snape loved Lily' theory.
:>
:> A stray comment by Aunt Petunia, makes me suspect that Snape and Lily
:> were close enough to have visited each other's home during break
:> time. I don't have the books near me so I can't quote title and
:> page name, but I recall Petunia mentioning Lily talking to a
:> "horrible boy". Harry asks her something like 'If it's my
:> father, why don't you use his name?' but Petunia doesn't confirm
:> that the horrible boy is James Potter. This makes me think that the
:> horrible boy is not James, but Snape. We know from the Pensieve that
:> Snape was an extremely horrible-looking boy, so the term fits Snape
:> much better than it fits James.
:
:Excellent connections. Works very much for me. :)

Sadly, a poor memory of what might or might not have been said/written
is not a very sound basis for a theory. The actual quote I believe the OP
is looking for is from Book 1 when Harry first learns he is a wizard:

"Knew!" shrieked Aunt Petunia suddenly. "Knew! Of course we knew!
How could you not be, my dratted sister being what she was? Oh, she
got a letter just like that and disappeared off to that -- that *school* --
and came home every vacation with her pockets full of frog spawn,
turning teacups into rats. I was the only one who saw her for what she was
-- a freak! But for my mother and father, oh no, it was Lily this and Lily
that, they were proud of having a witch in the family!"

She stopped and drew a deep breath and then went ranting on. It
seemed she had been waiting to say all this for years.

"Then she met that Potter at school and they left and got married and
had you, and of course I knew you'd be just the same, just as strange,
just as -- as -- *abnormal* -- and then, if you please, she went and got
herself blown up and we got landed with you!"

So, no mere and ambiguous "horrible boy" (perhaps that is what was said
in the movie?) but an explicit reference to James Potter.

Dave

[unknown]

WOW! That is probably the most well thought out theory I've ever come across
on these newsgroups. The only "problem" I'd have with that theory is that
Snape proports to hate muggle-borns. But as you said and as JKR made
painfully obvious in HBP you can't help who you fall in love with. Very good.
I'd be very surprised if JKR herself isn't thinking much along those same
lines.

Post by doodles
SPOILER SPACE
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

[Julie]

Post by unknown
WOW! That is probably the most well thought out theory I've ever come across
on these newsgroups. The only "problem" I'd have with that
theory is that
Snape proports to hate muggle-borns. But as you said and as JKR made
painfully obvious in HBP you can't help who you fall in love
with. Very good.
I'd be very surprised if JKR herself isn't thinking much along
those same
lines.

Mudbloods actually - and he is one himself....not muggleborn, but
of mixed blood - halfblood Prince. So he acknowledges both sides of
himself in this statement. I found it very interesting.

It might explain why he is so mixed up. Can't decide where his
loyalties lie.

[Alex Clark]

Post by Julie
Mudbloods actually - and he is one himself....not muggleborn, but
of mixed blood - halfblood Prince. . . .

"Mudblood" is a derogatory word for Muggleborn. It does not mean
half-blood.

--
Alex Clark

Lord, am I Voldemort! (an anagram used by Tom Riddle on his worse days)

[Julie]

Post by Alex Clark

Post by Julie
Mudbloods actually - and he is one himself....not muggleborn,
but
of mixed blood - halfblood Prince. . . .

"Mudblood" is a derogatory word for Muggleborn. It does not mean
half-blood.
--

True, but he is still mixed and not the pure that he so very much
wants to be, I still think that he loved Lilly or was obsessed by
her.
Jules

[Jules]

I just came back to say, see... He was in love and obsessed with her :) I love the books all the more today because of Snape's love for Lily, and I love Alan Rickman, so I'm double happy to watch the movies too :)

[Julie]

Post by doodles
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging
remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams.
When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized
later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his
involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save
Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of
responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that
Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

I agree, though I have said for a long time now that it was Snape's
love for Lilly that caused the animosity in the first place. Though
I was always shot down in flames because he hates mudbloods and
calls her that at least once (forget which memory right now). But
the critical adition to this theory that helps support it from HBP
is that Snape himself is actually mixed too. So I feel somewhat
vindicated..... and happen to agree with your summary, and glad to
have you to put it out there.
Jules

[Sky_rider]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 21:45:28 +1000, "Julie" <***@hotkey.net.au>
wrote the following in ink distilled from the fermented blood of a

Post by Julie

Post by doodles
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I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging
remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of
Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams.
When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized
later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his
involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save
Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of
responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that
Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory.

I agree, though I have said for a long time now that it was Snape's
love for Lilly that caused the animosity in the first place. Though
I was always shot down in flames because he hates mudbloods and
calls her that at least once (forget which memory right now). But
the critical adition to this theory that helps support it from HBP
is that Snape himself is actually mixed too. So I feel somewhat
vindicated..... and happen to agree with your summary, and glad to
have you to put it out there.
Jules

He said it when being teased by James as Harry watched Snape's memory
in the pensieve (OoP).

[Gary G]

Hey - I still dislike a kid that won the heart of a girl
I wanted to date in High School. . .

[Jules]

Just want to say, you were right. Glad I supported your post :)