Invisibiltiy Cloak Plot Holes-- Argh!

[beyond the pale]

OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.

When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

[santosh]

beyond the pale wrote:

[ ... ]

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be
explained but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main
JKR complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's
eye can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with
the Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I noticed that goof up even as I read about the description for the third
Hallow. Also Dumbledore was able to see Harry through it in the room which
held the Mirror of Erised in the first book.

[sponk]

Post by santosh
[ ... ]

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be
explained but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main
JKR complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's
eye can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with
the Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I noticed that goof up even as I read about the description for the third
Hallow. Also Dumbledore was able to see Harry through it in the room which
held the Mirror of Erised in the first book.

Here's how I see it.

During the Gringotts heist, the three passed under a waterfall that
removed the magic effects so that anyone seeing the polyjuiced
individual would see them as they really were, anyone under a spell
would be released, etc. However, unless someone held a specific
talent--for example, the ability to see in infrared and detect heat
from a hidden individual, or could sense someones life spirit nearby,
that person couldn't see under the cloak, and no spell or magic effect
such as the waterfall could make the hidden person visible to the
public at large. In terms of the "visible spectrum" the way most
people see things, there was no charm or spell that would remove the
cloak's effect.

If Harry had just eaten a garlic sandwich, the cloak wouldn't protect
others from smelling him, it would only protect them from seeing him
in the conventional way. Likewise, Harry would show up on a
Sneakascope or the Marauder's map, although he wouldn't be seen.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by sponk

Post by santosh
[ ... ]

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be
explained but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main
JKR complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's
eye can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with
the Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I noticed that goof up even as I read about the description for the third
Hallow. Also Dumbledore was able to see Harry through it in the room which
held the Mirror of Erised in the first book.

Here's how I see it.
During the Gringotts heist, the three passed under a waterfall that
removed the magic effects so that anyone seeing the polyjuiced
individual would see them as they really were, anyone under a spell
would be released, etc. However, unless someone held a specific
talent--for example, the ability to see in infrared and detect heat
from a hidden individual, or could sense someones life spirit nearby,
that person couldn't see under the cloak, and no spell or magic effect
such as the waterfall could make the hidden person visible to the
public at large. In terms of the "visible spectrum" the way most
people see things, there was no charm or spell that would remove the
cloak's effect.
If Harry had just eaten a garlic sandwich, the cloak wouldn't protect
others from smelling him, it would only protect them from seeing him
in the conventional way. Likewise, Harry would show up on a
Sneakascope or the Marauder's map, although he wouldn't be seen.

Which, of course is why Mrs. Harris can tell he is around, but still
can't SEE him.

[Toon]

Post by santosh
[ ... ]

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be
explained but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main
JKR complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's
eye can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with
the Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I noticed that goof up even as I read about the description for the third
Hallow. Also Dumbledore was able to see Harry through it in the room which
held the Mirror of Erised in the first book.

Did he see Harry, or know Harry was there? Wa she able to detect the
Cloak, and know?

[Welsh Dog]

Post by santosh
[ ... ]

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be
explained but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main
JKR complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's
eye can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with
the Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I noticed that goof up even as I read about the description for the third
Hallow. Also Dumbledore was able to see Harry through it in the room which
held the Mirror of Erised in the first book.

Did he see Harry, or know Harry was there? Was he able to detect the
Cloak, and know?

He didn't see thru the cloak... he used 'Homenum revelio' same as
Hermione did in Grimmauld Place. The cloak, like the other Hallows,
isn't totally infallible - just *very* special!

Welshdog

[Impmon]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:35:31 -0400, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

While they look the same, Harry's cloak have been working for a very
long time while a typical invisibility cloak tended to fade over time,
becoming more opaque and eventually it won't hide person anymore.

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
door until after Moody's death.

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.

[mueckelein]

Post by Impmon
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:35:31 -0400, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

While they look the same, Harry's cloak have been working for a very
long time while a typical invisibility cloak tended to fade over time,
becoming more opaque and eventually it won't hide person anymore.

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
door until after Moody's death.

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.

That�s true, but essential things like the cloak should be
consistant!
And if Moody could see everything with his eye I wonder if he could
also see through ordinary clothes...makes the matter a bit delicate.
I found this stuff with the invisibility cloak awkward, too.
Especially as Ron recognized it as an invisibility cloak. Does it look
like an ordinary invisibility cloak? Is it a special cloth you need to
make an invisibility cloak? It is described as floating fabric, light
as the air. Quite a few people have taken the cloak into their hands,
but noone noticed any difference. Everyone in the order and quite a
few students knew Harry had this cloak and noone ever wondered that it
did not wear off. And suddenly this one is sooo special. It is a bit
strange.

[Alex Regh]

That´s true, but essential things like the cloak should be
consistant!
... And suddenly this one is sooo special. It is a bit
strange.

I know JKR tries to explain it in the book, mostly with the fading thing, but
it is one of those things in book 7 that sound a bit patched up; the whole
hallows thing does.

Alex

[DaveD]

Post by Alex Regh

That´s true, but essential things like the cloak should be
consistant!
... And suddenly this one is sooo special. It is a bit
strange.

I know JKR tries to explain it in the book, mostly with the fading thing, but
it is one of those things in book 7 that sound a bit patched up; the whole
hallows thing does.
Alex

Same here. So... does anyone else think that the whole Deathly Hallows bit
was a fairly recent addition to the plan, that JKR didn't originally plan
for it?

Whilst some of the items were mentioned in earlier books, eg the cloak,
obviously, and the ring with the Peverell family crest, the concept of the
DHs overpowering death was never mentioned in previous books (and I'm sure
she should have found an excuse for the first years to hear the story in
PS/SS)

If so, I'm sure there are lots of possible reasons for suddenly adding in
the DHs - my guess is that she originally intended Harry to die but had to
change that because of the global upset it would cause, and came up with the
DHs as the way to protect Harry.

But regardless of that, I do think it was a fairly late addition, with no
real clues that I can think of in the earlier books apart from the brief
mention of the Peverells. Anyone else?

DaveD

[Justin Alexander]

Post by DaveD
Same here. So... does anyone else think that the whole Deathly Hallows bit
was a fairly recent addition to the plan, that JKR didn't originally plan
for it?

We seem to get this with every single book.

"Why wasn't the Order of the Phoenix ever mentioned before?"
"Why weren't horcruxes ever mentioned before?"
"Why weren't the hallows ever mentioned before?"

Every single book expands the mythology of Harry Potter, and every
single time there's somebody who feels the addition is some sort of
cheap trick.

--
Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

[DaveD]

Post by Justin Alexander

Post by DaveD
Same here. So... does anyone else think that the whole Deathly Hallows bit
was a fairly recent addition to the plan, that JKR didn't originally plan
for it?

We seem to get this with every single book.
"Why wasn't the Order of the Phoenix ever mentioned before?"
"Why weren't horcruxes ever mentioned before?"
"Why weren't the hallows ever mentioned before?"
Every single book expands the mythology of Harry Potter, and every
single time there's somebody who feels the addition is some sort of
cheap trick.
--
Justin Alexander

Well I've never said this before - nor am I "whinging" or saying it's a
cheap trick. I'm asking a direct question out of curiosity as this concept
seems to be have been introduced quite differently to how other things have
been in previous books, and if so, wondering if there's some underlying
reason for its introduction. It certainly adds a whole new layer of
complexity to the last book which seems to have confused a lot of people.

The OotP wasn't mentioned in the first couple of books but it was certainly
alluded to in that there was a group of people fighting Voldemort. We just
didn't know the group had a name.

Horcruxes similarly weren't mentioned by name but they were also alluded to
several times, eg the clue with the diary, Dd confirming to Harry at the end
of CoS that Voldy had left something of himself in Harry that night in
Godric's Hollow.

Whereas there were hardly any clues at all about the Deathly Hallows but a
couple of contradictions - the invisibility cloak was rare but not unheard
of; no reason to believe it was so special (and several times in the
previous books, as has been pointed out, where it appears to have behaved
like an ordinary cloak allowing spells through).

There was mention of the Peverells and their coat of arms on the ring, but
that's as far as it went.

There may have been a very slight similarity with the philosopher's stone,
but only insofar as they were both stones connected with death which seems
more like a coincidence than a clue.

And nothing I can think of that describes this slightly ambivalent and
contradictory behaviour of the elder wand - at times it is an actual wand;
at others, it's a concept that jumps from person to person rather than wand
to wand (hmm, could it be a magical photon, both waveform and particle,
lol). And how can it be this all-powerful wand whose possessor that always
wins yet then loses duels so it can pass on?!

I'm sorry but it just doesn't have the same feel of solidity that the rest
of JKR's ideas have. Everything else more-or-less fits together and is
mutually supporting and has an internal logic. The deathly hallows don't -
something doesn't feel quite right, imho.

DaveD

[Meghan Noecker]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:43:19 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
If so, I'm sure there are lots of possible reasons for suddenly adding in
the DHs - my guess is that she originally intended Harry to die but had to
change that because of the global upset it would cause, and came up with the
DHs as the way to protect Harry.

If that was all she wanted, she could have still done that and had
Voldemort wanting Dumbledore's wand as a trophy. Keep in the part
about the allegience of the wand and having to take it by force, and
that part with Snape and Malfoy would still come into play.

I think the purpose of the deathly hallows was more to spread out the
mission the kids had to complete, explain some of Dumbledore's
history, and also to give Harry the opportunity to study these issues
and come to his conclusion at the end.

[Moon]

Post by DaveD
If so, I'm sure there are lots of possible reasons for suddenly adding in
the DHs - my guess is that she originally intended Harry to die but had to
change that because of the global upset it would cause, and came up with the
DHs as the way to protect Harry.

You sure about that? When was the interview in which she said she'd already
written the epilogue and that the last word would be "scar"? Now she has
changed the ending and the last word is well instead.

Still having the word "scar" in the original epilogue suggests Harry would
survive.

[DaveD]

Post by Moon

Post by DaveD
If so, I'm sure there are lots of possible reasons for suddenly adding in
the DHs - my guess is that she originally intended Harry to die but had to
change that because of the global upset it would cause, and came up with the
DHs as the way to protect Harry.

You sure about that? When was the interview in which she said she'd already
written the epilogue and that the last word would be "scar"? Now she has
changed the ending and the last word is well instead.
Still having the word "scar" in the original epilogue suggests Harry would
survive.

Um, well as I said, my *guess* is - so no, definitely not sure. It's just a
hunch!

But I'm sure it would be as easy to write the last word as "scar" either
way.

DaveD

[Toon]

Post by Moon

Post by DaveD
If so, I'm sure there are lots of possible reasons for suddenly adding in
the DHs - my guess is that she originally intended Harry to die but had to
change that because of the global upset it would cause, and came up with the
DHs as the way to protect Harry.

She said the ending was that only his family/ friends could see the
scar.

Post by Moon
You sure about that? When was the interview in which she said she'd already
written the epilogue and that the last word would be "scar"? Now she has
changed the ending and the last word is well instead.

It was very long ago. Book 4 or 5, I think.

Post by Moon
Still having the word "scar" in the original epilogue suggests Harry would
survive.

Or, the theory his scar would vanish holds true, and he's still dead.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Impmon
On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:35:31 -0400, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

While they look the same, Harry's cloak have been working for a very
long time while a typical invisibility cloak tended to fade over time,
becoming more opaque and eventually it won't hide person anymore.

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
door until after Moody's death.

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.

That´s true, but essential things like the cloak should be
consistant!
And if Moody could see everything with his eye I wonder if he could
also see through ordinary clothes...makes the matter a bit delicate.
I found this stuff with the invisibility cloak awkward, too.
Especially as Ron recognized it as an invisibility cloak. Does it look
like an ordinary invisibility cloak? Is it a special cloth you need to
make an invisibility cloak? It is described as floating fabric, light
as the air. Quite a few people have taken the cloak into their hands,
but noone noticed any difference. Everyone in the order and quite a
few students knew Harry had this cloak and noone ever wondered that it
did not wear off. And suddenly this one is sooo special. It is a bit
strange.

Well, it is clear that if he can through walls, then he could easily see
through clothes.

[Richard Eney]

Post by Impmon

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

While they look the same, Harry's cloak have been working for a very
long time while a typical invisibility cloak tended to fade over time,
becoming more opaque and eventually it won't hide person anymore.

But did Dumbledore see through it when the Trio were hiding in Hagrid's cabin
in PoA? Or did he just sense life energy or have some other way to tell that
someone was there? Did he hear the kids breathing? Were his glasses like
Mad-Eye's special eye? Or was it just random glancing and us guessing powers he
didn't really have?

Post by Impmon

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
door until after Moody's death.

The kids took it because they believed it _was_ Mad-Eye's, and that wasn't
contradicted. I think it was unique, like most of the other stuff.

Post by Impmon

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.

ThatŽs true, but essential things like the cloak should be
consistant!
And if Moody could see everything with his eye I wonder if he could
also see through ordinary clothes...makes the matter a bit delicate.

Yes, Mad-Eye could see through the cloak and through ordinary clothing -
he comments on Harry's socks, which were covered by his new floor-length
robes. One of the girls understands this and comments about it at the dance.

I found this stuff with the invisibility cloak awkward, too.
Especially as Ron recognized it as an invisibility cloak. Does it look
like an ordinary invisibility cloak?

Apparently it does.

Is it a special cloth you need to make an invisibility cloak?

Fantastic Beasts says they are woven of a particular beasts's hair,
but HP&DH says that this special one looks like the others but isn't
made of the same material.

The idea that ordinary invisibility fur wears out helps explain something
I'd wondered about. In GoF, Karkaroff has a cloak with silvery fur, and
he manages to stay hidden from the DEs for quite a while. I've wondered
if the fur was the skin of the invisibility animal (instead of just
cloth being woven of it), and whether the coat lining was the same and
would have been a cloak if turned inside out. If it were a stealth
invisibility cloak, and it wore out after being used for a whole year,
then he would have lost his best hiding method.

It is described as floating fabric, light as the air.
Quite a few people have taken the cloak into their hands,
but noone noticed any difference. Everyone in the order and quite a
few students knew Harry had this cloak and noone ever wondered that
it did not wear off.

Ron knew what one was, but he didn't know they wore out. Hermione
doesn't seem to have learned that in her researches (though at age
ll, maybe the information was in a Restricted book, and later she
forgot to bother to check for that topic).

And suddenly this one is sooo special. It is a bit strange.

It's not so strange if all the Hallows were made to look like more ordinary
objects - a normal wand (elder wasn't considered a 'bad' wand wood until
after the Hallow wand became known for its associations), a simple ring
with a black stone, an expensive but not unheard of style of cloak. It's
the best way to hide something unique: make it look ordinary.

=Tamar

[beyond the pale]

Post by Impmon
Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
door until after Moody's death.

Er, I think we are pretty much to understand that Umbridge has Moody's
actual eye.

Post by Impmon
Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.

People are paid for this job, though- continuity is their only task.

[Louis Epstein]

beyond the pale <***@nospamgmail.com> wrote:
:
: "Impmon" <***@digi.mon> wrote
:>
:>
:> Magical eye sees all. But I'd guess Mad Eye's magical eye is very
:> rare if not unique as Umbridge didn't get one installed in her office
:> door until after Moody's death.
:>
: Er, I think we are pretty much to understand that Umbridge has Moody's
: actual eye.
:
:>
:> Some inconsisties exists in Potter universe. No one is perfect.
:
: People are paid for this job, though- continuity is their only task.

And PRINCE and HALLOWS had the same continuity editor credited
in back.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

[kevin]

On Jul 22, 1:35 pm, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Supposedly, other invisibility cloaks didn't make the wearer quite
totally invisible and also they faded and became more visible after
they got old/used. Harry's was impossibly old and still worked
perfectly....

but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

[mueckelein]

Post by kevin
On Jul 22, 1:35 pm, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Supposedly, other invisibility cloaks didn't make the wearer quite
totally invisible and also they faded and became more visible after
they got old/used. Harry's was impossibly old and still worked
perfectly....
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

DD froze Harry when he was covered by his cloak as well in "the
lightning struck tower" Book 6.

[2***@wongfaye.com]

the deathly hallows were exagerations

they are just powerful magical items they were not crafted by death
its just a fairy tale

[DaveD]

Post by mueckelein

Post by kevin
On Jul 22, 1:35 pm, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Supposedly, other invisibility cloaks didn't make the wearer quite
totally invisible and also they faded and became more visible after
they got old/used. Harry's was impossibly old and still worked
perfectly....
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

DD froze Harry when he was covered by his cloak as well in "the
lightning struck tower" Book 6.

Good points, both - several continuity errors there!

Which just adds to my feeling that the cloak and possibly the whole deathly
hallows bit was added in as a bit of an afterthought. If it had been planned
as meticulously as the rest of the plot lines, I'm sure we'd have had more
clues about them in earlier books, and fewer continuity errors like those...

I know what question I'd like to ask JKR in an interview :)

DaveD

[beyond the pale]

Post by kevin
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

If I remember right, Draco jinxed Harry before covering him back up with the
cloack? But if not this would be another very glaring error for the cloak in
7...

[Richard Eney]

Post by beyond the pale

Post by kevin
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

If I remember right, Draco jinxed Harry before covering him back up with the
cloack? But if not this would be another very glaring error for the cloak in
7...

Draco knew Harry was there when Harry's foot stuck out briefly. The cloak
hides you, it doesn't prevent magic from affecting you.

=Tamar

[doofy]

Post by beyond the pale

Post by kevin
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

If I remember right, Draco jinxed Harry before covering him back up with the
cloack? But if not this would be another very glaring error for the cloak in
7...

No, Harry was up in the luggage rack and Draco jinxed him there, then
proceeded to stomp on his nose, etc, after he was lying on the floor.

[Meghan Noecker]

Post by doofy

Post by beyond the pale

Post by kevin
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

If I remember right, Draco jinxed Harry before covering him back up with the
cloack? But if not this would be another very glaring error for the cloak in
7...

No, Harry was up in the luggage rack and Draco jinxed him there, then
proceeded to stomp on his nose, etc, after he was lying on the floor.

Here is the quote from the book (American version p. 411)

"We are talking about a cloak that really and truly renders the wearer
completely invisible, and endures eternally, givibg constant and
inpenetrable concealment, no matter what spells are cast on it."

So, it doesn't prevent all spells from going through. It just keeps
you invisible regardless of what spells are used. So, you could still
be stunned or killed under it if somebody happened to aim at you
randomly or in a good guess.

The only part that doesn't make sense to me yet is Moody's eye.
Clearly, he does see through it since he understands what Harry is
telling him when he gets caught in the stairway.

Though it technically isn't a spell being cast at the cloak, but some
other magical way of seeing.

[Sue H]

The whole cloak thing was explained... at least in one sense.
Although Harry's was old, it was indeed that of Ignatio's who was one
of the three brothers who cheated death. Though other cloaks of
invisibility are indeed around (rare but around), that particular
cloak had qualities the other did not.

However, this does not explain why the eye of Mad-Eye, while on the
door of Umbridge, did not alert the ministry. Unless of course
Umbridge had to be in the office to get warned or the distraction
harry made distracted the eye. That part is a mystery to me.

Post by kevin
On Jul 22, 1:35 pm, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Supposedly, other invisibility cloaks didn't make the wearer quite
totally invisible and also they faded and became more visible after
they got old/used. Harry's was impossibly old and still worked
perfectly....
but you are right. Draco Malfoy jinxed Harry under his cloak in Book
6 on the Hogwarts express (Tonks rescued him)... stupefied him, I
think.

[IsaacKuo]

.
.
.
.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
.
.
.
.

Post by Sue H
However, this does not explain why the eye of Mad-Eye, while on the
door of Umbridge, did not alert the ministry. Unless of course
Umbridge had to be in the office to get warned or the distraction
harry made distracted the eye. That part is a mystery to me.

When Mad-Eye and Barty Crouch Junior wore the eye, the eye
was constantly moving around, scanning in all directions
(including inside through the bearer's own head).

But Umbridge just used it as a passive component of a
telescope-like contraption. It only moved when she was
using the device from insider her office and physically
moved the contraption. Obviously, the eye was not
"alive" in the same way it was when it was worn by
Mad-Eye or Barty. If it's not "alive" and scanning around,
I don't expect it would set off any warnings to anyone.

Isaac Kuo

[Sue H]

I guess I need to go back and reread that... I missed the part about
it not moving around... if so, that does make some sense.

Post by IsaacKuo
.
.
.
.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
.
.
.
.

Post by Sue H
However, this does not explain why the eye of Mad-Eye, while on the
door of Umbridge, did not alert the ministry. Unless of course
Umbridge had to be in the office to get warned or the distraction
harry made distracted the eye. That part is a mystery to me.

When Mad-Eye and Barty Crouch Junior wore the eye, the eye
was constantly moving around, scanning in all directions
(including inside through the bearer's own head).
But Umbridge just used it as a passive component of a
telescope-like contraption. It only moved when she was
using the device from insider her office and physically
moved the contraption. Obviously, the eye was not
"alive" in the same way it was when it was worn by
Mad-Eye or Barty. If it's not "alive" and scanning around,
I don't expect it would set off any warnings to anyone.
Isaac Kuo

[Harrz]

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

You're forgetting that Lovegood, when he describes the cloak, is
thinking of a cloak made by Death himself. The truth seems to be less
spectacular. The Hallows are only very, very well made magical objects,
from mortal wizards, made by wizards, not by universal powers like
Death, God or Homer Simpson. Harry's cloak is one of the objects the
myth is based on, and it is quite special because after all those years
it is still fully operational.

[Tangent]

I've lent my copy so I can't check at the moment, but isn't the
unusual feature of the Cloak the fact that it can protect more than
one person at the same time?

[Richard Eney]

Post by Tangent
I've lent my copy so I can't check at the moment, but isn't the
unusual feature of the Cloak the fact that it can protect more than
one person at the same time?

No, that's just because it's large.

The unusual feature is that its invisibility doesn't wear off, and
that at the time it was made, no known magic charm or spell would
overcome the invisibility and reveal the wearer. But if the wearer
stuck a foot out, the foot would be visible, and Mad-Eye's unique
magic eye could see through it and anything else.

=Tamar

[Ron Hunter]

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

Yes, not only Mad-Eye, but Dumbledore seem able to see through the
cloak. Something ask JKR.

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

I have no objection to her clearing things up in interviews. If every
question was answered in the books, they would each be 1000 pages long,
and someone would STILL find a question to ask.

[Matt Frisch]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:35:31 -0400, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others?

According to Mr. Lovegood, normal invisibility cloaks only last so long
before their magic expires. They also develop holes and such in the course
of normal use. Harry's is both very old, and still in perfect condition.

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

This also occured to me. Plus, Dumbledore is able to see Harry and Ron
under the cloak in CoS. It's possible that the properties of the cloak are
overstated. It is a children's story, after all.

[Welsh Dog]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:35:31 -0400, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Err..... Mad-eye's mad eye was 'special'! :) There ya go.

Welshdog

[Justin Alexander]

Post by beyond the pale
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.

Re-read the chapter entitled "The Tale of Three Brothers". It
explains, with great precision, the properties of the hallow as
opposed to typical invisibility cloaks. And Harry's cloak clearly has
the properties of the hallow.

Post by beyond the pale
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.

And since the hallow is never described as being impenetrable to
Moody's eye, I'm not clear what point you think you're making here.

Post by beyond the pale
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books

... except, of course, where it's explicitly explained in the books.

Learn to read. Then get back to us.

--
Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

[Jane Grey]

On 22 Jul, 18:35, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

nicely spotted! but maybe the fairy tale shouldn't be taken literally.
maybe harry's cloak hid his ancestor from death because it hid him in
dangerous situations and not literally from Death. Just cos the fairy
tale the cloak completely hides the wearer doesn't necessarily exclude
the possibility of exceptions like AD and Mad-eye's eye. Similarly
the fairy tale spoke of the elder wand as being able to beat anyone in
battle but AD beat Grindewalde when he had it. Also as mentioned in
DH, where the other cloaks lose their invisibility over time, this one
doesn't, so it is special in that respect...

--
Jane Grey

[Eric Bohlman]

Post by Jane Grey
nicely spotted! but maybe the fairy tale shouldn't be taken literally.

I think that was JKR's whole point: Voldemort's downfall comes entirely as
a result of taking a) a prophecy and b) a children's folk story literally.
One of her major themes has been that we create our own destinies, rather
than having them determined by external forces. When we act as if legend
and prophecy are literal rules to follow, we screw up.

[Welsh Dog]

Post by Eric Bohlman

Post by Jane Grey
nicely spotted! but maybe the fairy tale shouldn't be taken literally.

I think that was JKR's whole point: Voldemort's downfall comes entirely as
a result of taking a) a prophecy and b) a children's folk story literally.
One of her major themes has been that we create our own destinies, rather
than having them determined by external forces. When we act as if legend
and prophecy are literal rules to follow, we screw up.

I thought it was stated Voldemort probably never read the story at
all? He'd had a Muggle upbringing until Dumbledore found him in the
orphanage so never read those tales, but he *had* heard of the 'elder
wand' because of its association with so many 'great' wizards

Welshdog

[Sue H]

Well, if you do follow the tale literally, something just occured to
me. Maybe Mad Eye and Dumbledore can see through the cloak only (and
this makes sense so please don't blast me till you reread the
circumstances around wearing the cloak)... because at those times,
Harry was not in danger of harm or death. the fairy tale if literal
(and Dumbledore says the story is quite true), says the wearer is
protected from death (or I suspect circumstances that could lead to
death). SO, with that being said, if Fudge, in Chamber of Secrets saw
him, he could be expelled, not learn magic and die by Voldemort's hand
easily or go to Azkaban and be with the death eaters. Fudge or Lucius
seeing him/them would mean trouble. With Mad-eye and Dumbledore,
there is never a worry about that!

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:53:47 -0700, Jane Grey

Post by Jane Grey
On 22 Jul, 18:35, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

nicely spotted! but maybe the fairy tale shouldn't be taken literally.
maybe harry's cloak hid his ancestor from death because it hid him in
dangerous situations and not literally from Death. Just cos the fairy
tale the cloak completely hides the wearer doesn't necessarily exclude
the possibility of exceptions like AD and Mad-eye's eye. Similarly
the fairy tale spoke of the elder wand as being able to beat anyone in
battle but AD beat Grindewalde when he had it. Also as mentioned in
DH, where the other cloaks lose their invisibility over time, this one
doesn't, so it is special in that respect...

[Jane Grey]

Post by Sue H
Well, if you do follow the tale literally, something just occured to
me. Maybe Mad Eye and Dumbledore can see through the cloak only (and
this makes sense so please don't blast me till you reread the
circumstances around wearing the cloak)... because at those times,
Harry was not in danger of harm or death. the fairy tale if literal
(and Dumbledore says the story is quite true), says the wearer is
protected from death (or I suspect circumstances that could lead to
death). SO, with that being said, if Fudge, in Chamber of Secrets saw
him, he could be expelled, not learn magic and die by Voldemort's hand
easily or go to Azkaban and be with the death eaters. Fudge or Lucius
seeing him/them would mean trouble. With Mad-eye and Dumbledore,
there is never a worry about that!

But then wouldn't Hagrid have been able to see Harry? As Hagrid never
wants to harm harry?

--
Jane Grey

[Frodo Baggins]

Post by Sue H
Well, if you do follow the tale literally, something just occured to
me. Maybe Mad Eye and Dumbledore can see through the cloak only (and
this makes sense so please don't blast me till you reread the
circumstances around wearing the cloak)... because at those times,
Harry was not in danger of harm or death. the fairy tale if literal
(and Dumbledore says the story is quite true), says the wearer is
protected from death (or I suspect circumstances that could lead to
death). SO, with that being said, if Fudge, in Chamber of Secrets saw
him, he could be expelled, not learn magic and die by Voldemort's hand
easily or go to Azkaban and be with the death eaters. Fudge or Lucius
seeing him/them would mean trouble. With Mad-eye and Dumbledore,
there is never a worry about that!
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:53:47 -0700, Jane Grey

Post by Jane Grey
On 22 Jul, 18:35, "beyond the pale"

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

nicely spotted! but maybe the fairy tale shouldn't be taken literally.
maybe harry's cloak hid his ancestor from death because it hid him in
dangerous situations and not literally from Death. Just cos the fairy
tale the cloak completely hides the wearer doesn't necessarily exclude
the possibility of exceptions like AD and Mad-eye's eye. Similarly
the fairy tale spoke of the elder wand as being able to beat anyone in
battle but AD beat Grindewalde when he had it. Also as mentioned in
DH, where the other cloaks lose their invisibility over time, this one
doesn't, so it is special in that respect...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardly. The Mad Eye was in the custody of an imposter who was directly
dangerous to Harry. The Wand appeared to "know" the complex ownership
rules of Dracos wand. So no reason for the cloak to not protect Harry
from the imposter Moody.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Also, how did Dumbledore see through Harry's Cloak?

[Tim Bruening]

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

Dumbledore could also see through the Cloak.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by beyond the pale
OK....So Harry's invisibility cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, 3 magical
objects that enable the owner to master death. The Hallowed cloak is
supposed to make things invisible and no magic can intervene and see through
it. Per book 7.
When Harry receives James's cloak early on, Ron is excited and recognizes
what it is- invisibility cloaks are really rare. Ron actually has to tell
Harry what the item is, as Harry doesn't know before he tries it. Also, Mad
Eye Moody is said to have TWO invisibility cloaks. So what makes Harry's
particular cloak special and how is someone supposed to identify it as a
Hallow when there are others? Also, no magic is supposed to be able to see
into the (Hallows) invisibility cloak.
Which brings me to Book 4, Goblet, when Harry is wearing James's cloak, the
very one that is supposed to be one of the 3 Hallows, and Mad Eye Moody's
magical eye can see through the cloak and see Harry.
Argh........JKR's continuity editor, Hello???? Some of this can be explained
but it is not made clear in the books which is one of my main JKR
complaints, the books should clear everything up- but she utilized
interviews to clear up things that her books don't. Some of it can be
explained away with made-up rules but the biggest thing is how Mad Eye's eye
can see through James's cloak, which is not supposed to happen with the
Hallows. Magic is not supposed to be able to get around them. sigh...

It is Dumbledore's opinion that the Peveral brothers made the Deathly Hallows,
not received them from Death. If wizards could make the Deathly Hallows, could
other wizards duplicate them? Did Dumbledore try to duplicate the Cloak and the
Wand?