How does the soul divide up when you create a Horcrux?

[chimaera]

So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

[Thom Madura]

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.

We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth

[2***@wongfaye.com]

i dont believe it breaks in half
other wise the first bit made into a horcrux would be a bigger chunk
than you have left in your body after 2 murders

so its probably just like 1 percent or less it probably depends on how
the murder affected the murderer it may even shatter your soul like a
mirror and when making the horcrux you grab a random size to be
contained then the rest heals up

[chimaera]

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed? Which is to say, you're
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body? In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes. If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

[Richard Eney]

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux?

<snip>

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
But that doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never
alluded to in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured
out how to create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his
soul into each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder.

<snip>

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
when Voldemort's AK rebounded off baby Harry's forehead, that body
was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't that have destroyed whatever
part of his soul was residing in that body? If not, where did that
bit of soul go when the body was destroyed?

<snip>

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura
The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and any one or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

<snip>

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
soul without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

That's exactly what Rowling sys.

Post by chimaera
Which is to say, you're assuming that the one that was in his body
wasn't destroyed when his body was originally destroyed, and that
that same "controlling" piece is occupying his current body? In what
form do you suppose that piece of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

Rowling had Voldemort describe drifting, "less than a ghost", afraid to
sleep lest he stop existing entirely, possessing small animals but unable
to do any other magic. The soul is not a ghost - JKR says - but since
the horcruxes tied it to the earth, it was a bodiless consciousness, very
much like a ghost but able to possess small animals (unlike ghosts,
apparently); it had only that tiny bit of wandless magic ability.
Otherwise it was also weaker than a poltergeist.

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes. If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

That's an interesting question. I think we have the answer in the
ability of Dementors to destroy an intact soul entirely. In the
Potterverse, a soul can be destroyed, but it doesn't happen casually.
Since the piece of soul that was in the Diary was destroyed - screamed,
writhed, vanished, and all the ink flowed out of the Diary as if it
were bleeding - it seems that the pieces of soul in the horcruxes will
die when their containers are wounded in a particular way. With the
Diary, it was being stabbed with the tooth of a basilisk that had some
of Harry's blood on it. (We don't know whether it was basilisk poison
or Harry's blood that made it happen.) With the Ring, all we know is
that the stone was cracked, just as the Diary got a hole in it.

(There has been mention of bad-luck opals, aside from Maxime's
necklace [and remember that even half-giants are resistant to magic].
I speculate that the Peverell ring was originally a black opal of the
sort that has water in its center. It doesn't matter what it was,
because that one is already done.)

We do know that Dumbledore specialized in blood magic, and that
Voldemort's cave-door spell could be opened by using the blood of
a wizard. DD used his own blood because he didn't want to waste
Harry's, which is special somehow.

I speculate that maybe in order to destroy a horcrux, Harry will
have to damage its container in such a way that wizard blood
penetrates it, and possibly also stab whatever is inside.

=Tamar

[Toon]

Post by Richard Eney
That's an interesting question. I think we have the answer in the
ability of Dementors to destroy an intact soul entirely. In the
Potterverse, a soul can be destroyed, but it doesn't happen casually.
Since the piece of soul that was in the Diary was destroyed - screamed,
writhed, vanished, and all the ink flowed out of the Diary as if it
were bleeding - it seems that the pieces of soul in the horcruxes will
die when their containers are wounded in a particular way. With the
Diary, it was being stabbed with the tooth of a basilisk that had some
of Harry's blood on it. (We don't know whether it was basilisk poison
or Harry's blood that made it happen.) With the Ring, all we know is
that the stone was cracked, just as the Diary got a hole in it.
(There has been mention of bad-luck opals, aside from Maxime's
necklace [and remember that even half-giants are resistant to magic].
I speculate that the Peverell ring was originally a black opal of the
sort that has water in its center. It doesn't matter what it was,
because that one is already done.)
We do know that Dumbledore specialized in blood magic, and that
Voldemort's cave-door spell could be opened by using the blood of
a wizard. DD used his own blood because he didn't want to waste
Harry's, which is special somehow.
I speculate that maybe in order to destroy a horcrux, Harry will
have to damage its container in such a way that wizard blood
penetrates it, and possibly also stab whatever is inside.
=Tamar

or the Horcrux is now "alive" and must be killed. Stabbing kills.
Perhaps if Voldemort AK's Harry, and he throws a horcrux into the
beam's path, it'll "kill" the horcrux. Drowning is interesting, as
the Locket was submerge din potion, but could have been safely
concealed in the actual locket part.

Once again, some guns would solve everything.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon

Post by Richard Eney
That's an interesting question. I think we have the answer in the
ability of Dementors to destroy an intact soul entirely. In the
Potterverse, a soul can be destroyed, but it doesn't happen casually.
Since the piece of soul that was in the Diary was destroyed - screamed,
writhed, vanished, and all the ink flowed out of the Diary as if it
were bleeding - it seems that the pieces of soul in the horcruxes will
die when their containers are wounded in a particular way. With the
Diary, it was being stabbed with the tooth of a basilisk that had some
of Harry's blood on it. (We don't know whether it was basilisk poison
or Harry's blood that made it happen.) With the Ring, all we know is
that the stone was cracked, just as the Diary got a hole in it.
(There has been mention of bad-luck opals, aside from Maxime's
necklace [and remember that even half-giants are resistant to magic].
I speculate that the Peverell ring was originally a black opal of the
sort that has water in its center. It doesn't matter what it was,
because that one is already done.)
We do know that Dumbledore specialized in blood magic, and that
Voldemort's cave-door spell could be opened by using the blood of
a wizard. DD used his own blood because he didn't want to waste
Harry's, which is special somehow.
I speculate that maybe in order to destroy a horcrux, Harry will
have to damage its container in such a way that wizard blood
penetrates it, and possibly also stab whatever is inside.
=Tamar

or the Horcrux is now "alive" and must be killed. Stabbing kills.
Perhaps if Voldemort AK's Harry, and he throws a horcrux into the
beam's path, it'll "kill" the horcrux. Drowning is interesting, as
the Locket was submerge din potion, but could have been safely
concealed in the actual locket part.
Once again, some guns would solve everything.

At this point - it is clear that use of a living object as a Horcrux is
not a good choice for a Horcrux so KILLING the horcrux is of limited use.

[DaveD]

Post by Thom Madura

Post by Toon
or the Horcrux is now "alive" and must be killed. Stabbing kills.
Perhaps if Voldemort AK's Harry, and he throws a horcrux into the
beam's path, it'll "kill" the horcrux. Drowning is interesting, as
the Locket was submerge din potion, but could have been safely
concealed in the actual locket part.
Once again, some guns would solve everything.

At this point - it is clear that use of a living object as a Horcrux is
not a good choice for a Horcrux so KILLING the horcrux is of limited use.

It might even be that if you killed a living horcrux, the body dies but then
the soulpiece takes over and it becomes a possessed inferi - an extension of
the horcrux maker. A fate worse than death? Or perhaps make a horcrux out of
someone who's been kissed by a dementor - seems like a natural home for a
soul piece.

I know it's been raised before, but it is interesting that JKR has the
dementor's sucking someone's soul out - sort of mirroring-but-opposite to
making horcruxes. Wonder if there's going to be some connection between the
two in book 7 - if Voldy somehow gets soulsucked by the dementors for a fate
worse than death...

DaveD

[Sirius Kase]

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

The soul won't pass on in pieces. Until all the pieces are freed of
the horcruxes, all of them are bound to this world.

Post by chimaera
Which is to say, you're
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body? In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

A vapor or some other such formless substance, or, at times, a
parasite in a rat or a person.

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

[mueckelein]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

The soul won't pass on in pieces. Until all the pieces are freed of
the horcruxes, all of them are bound to this world.

Post by chimaera
Which is to say, you're
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body? In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

A vapor or some other such formless substance, or, at times, a
parasite in a rat or a person.

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

Sharing your point of view completely!

[Toon]

Post by Sirius Kase
The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

So, a resouled Voldemort, meeting Harry's blood within him, could be
destroyed by Lily's love within.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon

Post by Sirius Kase
The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

So, a resouled Voldemort, meeting Harry's blood within him, could be
destroyed by Lily's love within.

It cannot be that simple
It cannot be that simple
It cannot be that simple
It cannot be that simple



I HOPE!

[chimaera]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

The soul won't pass on in pieces. Until all the pieces are freed of
the horcruxes, all of them are bound to this world.

Post by chimaera
Which is to say, you're
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body? In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

A vapor or some other such formless substance, or, at times, a
parasite in a rat or a person.

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hmmm, but if the bits of soul liberated from their Horcruxes go back
and join the main soul in its owner's body, then wouldn't Voldemort
have the option of repeating the murder/spell process and making
replacement Horcruxes? I don't particularly anticipate that -- I
didn't even know it was an option until I saw the answers to my
original question -- but if I were Voldemort and sensed my soul
becoming more whole, that would be my first thought.

However, I know that in HBP Dumbledore told Harry that he didn't
believe that Voldemort knew when a Horcrux was destroyed because his
soul was so damaged. At the time I took that to mean that he had torn
his soul into so many pieces that he didn't have a large enough amount
of soul left to "sense" when part of it was destroyed. This
conversation makes me wonder if having his soul begin to put itself
back together might lead to his sensing the change and taking further
steps to protect his immortality. But then, I suppose Rowling put in
that exchange between Dumbledore and Harry specifically to close off
speculation of just this kind.

[DaveD]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

Where do you get that from, that the freed bits join back up to the main
soul? (I don't recall reading that though I may well have missed it). It's
just that I'd have thought the soul bits were destroyed when the
horcrux-aspect of the object was destroyed, leaving the main original bit of
the soul still torn and reduced, and Voldy still not human as a result.

Otherwise, if the torn-off pieces rejoined the original bit, you could
retear it back into 7 pieces again, and/or Voldy would start becoming more
human again as his soul reformed ("reconstituted soul" - eiw!) which
doesn't seem to be the case from the descriptions in GoF and OoTP etc.

DaveD

[Richard Eney]

<snip>

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

No. If the soul bit were freed when the horcrux object is damaged,
then DiaryTom would not have been in obvious pain, writhing and
screaming as it died. When a horcrux is destroyed, the soul piece
in it is destroyed.

Secondary evidence: As Voldemort made more and more horcruxes,
he became visibly less human. If he had regained a piece of soul
when the Diary was destroyed, and again when the ring was destroyed,
he would have looked more human again, and I really think he would
have noticed regaining some soul.

JKR has established that in the Potterverse a soul _can_ be
destroyed.

=Tamar

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Richard Eney
<snip>

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

No. If the soul bit were freed when the horcrux object is damaged,
then DiaryTom would not have been in obvious pain, writhing and
screaming as it died. When a horcrux is destroyed, the soul piece
in it is destroyed.
Secondary evidence: As Voldemort made more and more horcruxes,
he became visibly less human. If he had regained a piece of soul
when the Diary was destroyed, and again when the ring was destroyed,
he would have looked more human again, and I really think he would
have noticed regaining some soul.

"Malfoy! Do you know what collard greens are?
"No Master"
"Well, I don't know why, but I suddenly have a craving for them."
" I guess some fried chicken, and cream gravy will have to do."

Post by Richard Eney
JKR has established that in the Potterverse a soul _can_ be
destroyed.
=Tamar

[Thom Madura]

Post by Richard Eney
<snip>

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

A horcrux is a soulbit combined with an object. When the soulbit is
separated from the object, the horcrux is destroyed, but the soul
isn't, it is freed to go join the main soul. The object may be
destroyed, or it may be damaged, or possibly, it simpley reverts back
to being whatever harmless thing it was in the first place.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

The freed soulbits rejoin the main soul. The soul might eventually
become whole, but it will have scars. Once the soul is whole, the
owner is mortal, even if the soul is damaged.

No. If the soul bit were freed when the horcrux object is damaged,
then DiaryTom would not have been in obvious pain, writhing and
screaming as it died. When a horcrux is destroyed, the soul piece
in it is destroyed.
Secondary evidence: As Voldemort made more and more horcruxes,
he became visibly less human. If he had regained a piece of soul
when the Diary was destroyed, and again when the ring was destroyed,
he would have looked more human again, and I really think he would
have noticed regaining some soul.
JKR has established that in the Potterverse a soul _can_ be
destroyed.
=Tamar

Indeed - V has become less human due to the number of Horcruxes he has
created. If the fragments returned - he would logically become more
human again - but DD has said that V does not feel when his Horcruxe are
destroyed.

[Toon]

Post by chimaera
So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

Exactly.

Post by chimaera
Which is to say, you're
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body?

So it has been written.

Post by chimaera
In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

Less than the meanest ghost. and apparently, judging by the Stone,
vapor. Hence the occasional reference as Vapormort.

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes.

Right. The pieces are forced onwards, not the Master Soul. It's a
one way street. The Soul Bits anchor the Master Soul to the Earth,
but not the other way around. A apparently a Soul Bit has a very
finite life expectancy. Either horcrux it, or it remerges/passes on.

Post by chimaera
If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

Voldmeort keeps them under his hood. As Little Voldemort A, and
little Voldermort B, etc.

[Thom Madura]

Post by chimaera

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

So are you saying that until all the "auxiliary" pieces of the soul
(the ones in the Horcruxes) are dealt with, the "main" piece (the one
in Voldemort's body) can't be released from its ties to earthly
existence even if the body is destroyed?

Yes - that is how the Horcrux is described.



Which is to say, you're

Post by chimaera
assuming that the one that was in his body wasn't destroyed when his
body was originally destroyed, and that that same "controlling" piece
is occupying his current body? In what form do you suppose that piece
of soul existed while Voldemort had no body?

AS is said in the books - it is in the form of a cursed life/half life
that most would not choose. (Firenz)

Post by chimaera
You remind me that a "normal," whole soul is not destroyed when its
vessel dies, but I certainly had the impression from the books that
the point was to destroy the pieces of Voldemort's soul by destroying
the Horcruxes. If not that, I wonder what happens to those pieces of
soul when their containers are destroyed.

Well - if you think of it - it really doesn't matter if the parts that
were made into a horcrux are destroyed - or return to the original main
part (Ie - V himself). Either way - they are no longer separate and
binding the soul to the earth. SO - once all 6 Horcruxes are destroyed -
even if the sould fragments inside return to the main part in V - V no
longer has a horcrux to save him.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Thom Madura

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

There is no indication in the books how the soul splits, in how many
pieces after a murder. About the only UNSAID thing we can assume - is
that somehow the soul must get back together again after a murder if no
Horcrux is produced. LOTS of murders have been committed - but it
appears only V lost his humanity (Became less and less human according
to DD) as he performed more and more murders and created more Horcruxes.
We have no idea of time frame in this either.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?

The main portion of the Soul was in V's body - and anyone or all of the
horcruxes bound his soul to the earth. I believe the point is that the
soul is not destroyed when the body is - the soul just moves on to the
next great adventure - unless there is something that prevents the soul
from moving on.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Well - those that knew about the spell - knew that the life as a bound
sould without a real body was a cursed/half life - etc. Yes - his body
was destroyed - but his soul was bound to the earth

So, are you saying that merely the existence of a horcrux binds his soul
to the earth, leaving him bodiless, but 'alive'? If so, then a horcrux
isn't 'used' but merely serves as a binding point for the 'life force'.
A point to ponder.

[n***@cs.com]

Post by Ron Hunter
So, are you saying that merely the existence of a horcrux binds
his soul to the earth, leaving him bodiless, but 'alive'? If so,
then a horcrux isn't 'used' but merely serves as a binding point
for the 'life force'.

I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

[Thom Madura]

Post by n***@cs.com

Post by Ron Hunter
So, are you saying that merely the existence of a horcrux binds
his soul to the earth, leaving him bodiless, but 'alive'? If so,
then a horcrux isn't 'used' but merely serves as a binding point
for the 'life force'.

I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

Actually, we have nothing to support this and it is likely that it is
not true that nobody ever "THOUGHT" to create more than one Horcrux. In
fact - we have no information that he is the only one to ever do it. TO
be fair - we have no information on anyone else ever having created
Horcruxes - one or many.

I have often thought that the real reason why DD was so dead set against
teacing about Horcruxes was that Grindewald used them - which made it a
project for DD to Vanquish him. I doubt we will never know this as well.

[n***@cs.com]

Post by Thom Madura

Post by n***@cs.com
I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

Actually, we have nothing to support this and it is likely that it
is not true that nobody ever "THOUGHT" to create more than one
Horcrux.

Okay. Sure.

Post by Thom Madura
In
fact - we have no information that he is the only one to ever do
it. TO be fair - we have no information on anyone else ever having
created Horcruxes - one or many.

As you wish. I am willing to accept, based on the combined statements
of Dumbledore, Slughorn, and Voldemort, that no-one was ever known,
before Voldemort, to have created more than one Horcrux. This
suffices for my only point -- that the normal use of a Horcrux,
insofar as anyone has heard of it at all, is to create only one.

This coincides with the evidence of folklore: Each evil wizard, giant
or demon gets only one external soul object per tale.

Post by Thom Madura
I have often thought that the real reason why DD was so dead set
against teacing about Horcruxes was that Grindewald used them -

Used IT, you mean. If Grindelwald created more-than-one soul object,
Dumbledore certainly knew nothing about it.

[mueckelein]

Post by n***@cs.com

Post by Thom Madura

Post by n***@cs.com
I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

Actually, we have nothing to support this and it is likely that it
is not true that nobody ever "THOUGHT" to create more than one
Horcrux.

Okay. Sure.

Post by Thom Madura
In
fact - we have no information that he is the only one to ever do
it. TO be fair - we have no information on anyone else ever having
created Horcruxes - one or many.

As you wish. I am willing to accept, based on the combined statements
of Dumbledore, Slughorn, and Voldemort, that no-one was ever known,
before Voldemort, to have created more than one Horcrux. This
suffices for my only point -- that the normal use of a Horcrux,
insofar as anyone has heard of it at all, is to create only one.
This coincides with the evidence of folklore: Each evil wizard, giant
or demon gets only one external soul object per tale.

Post by Thom Madura
I have often thought that the real reason why DD was so dead set
against teacing about Horcruxes was that Grindewald used them -

Used IT, you mean. If Grindelwald created more-than-one soul object,
Dumbledore certainly knew nothing about it.

We know that at Hogwarts the students don´t get to know anything about
Horcruxes, not even that something like this exists. And obviously not
even welltrained Aurors seem to know about them! Otherwise I am sure
Moody or Lupin, not to mention the former OotP with Lily,
James....would have suspected that Voldemort used Horcruxes. This
lack of knowledge encloses, as we can see, that noone is aware of the
danger that comes with a Horcrux. We cannot fight anything we don´t
know. What we do know though, is, that at Durmstrang the Dark arts
are subject at school and I would not be surprised if Hermione tries
to find out about them via Krum! Even if Krum cannot attend school any
more - he must be 21 by now - he might be able to help her. He is a
famous man with a lot of influence.

Concerning the way a Horcrux works I agree with the "anchor - theory",
that as long as there is part of the soul tied to an earthly subject
or creature the main soul cannot go. Parts of a soul are not accepted
in "heaven or hell". No idea what happens to the freed part of a soul
after the destruction of a Horcrux, if it reunites with the main part
or if it stays out there somewhere waiting for the other part(s) to be
freed and thereby able to get to the " stage of the next great
adventure" as DD would say. My big big question though is, how many
parts you can split off the main soul at all. With every splitting the
main soul left is damaged more. How much soul do you need to "live",
meaning to be able to act and think. Hagrid seemed to have got it
right in the beginning: " don´t know if there was enough human left in
him to die".
What about turning the point around: Don´t know if there was enough
human left in him to live?!. We know that V. lost his body when trying
to kill Harry. What was it that took his body though? The rebounce of
the AK? Had V. never before been cursed with the AK? Unlikely. No , it
must have been something different. Does an AK change it´s effect if
it rebounces due to love? Well, the AK did not simply rebounce - it
left a cut on Harry´s forehead and we all know it is not an ordinary
scar . I fear we will have to wait and see. I do have my version of
the happenings at Godric´s hollow and I have set them under "Harry is
a Horcrux" some time ago; nobody seemed to share my point of view
though so I´ll not spread it out here unless someone wants me to.

[Toon]

Post by mueckelein
Parts of a soul are not accepted
in "heaven or hell".

Reminds me of Tom & Jerry, where Tom dies and his soul goes to hell,
but Devil Spike can't let him in until the other 8 join the first
(each conveniently numbered), and he proceeds to kill Tom 8 more
times.

So, there are at least 2 Voldemorts at various ages waiting on a bench
to be allowed into Hell.

Post by mueckelein
My big big question though is, how many
parts you can split off the main soul at all.

At least 5.

Post by mueckelein
What was it that took his body though? The rebounce of
the AK? Had V. never before been cursed with the AK?

Nope. I doubt he was. Of course, the house exploded. it could be
the explosion killed him. That would cause pain unimagined? Perhaps
Harry set off his Thuudner Attack when hit, and the manic's mixed and
blew up the house right as Vodlemrot got back blasted. V assumed the
AKing caused him the pain, due to his not being bale to die, but it
was really his being blown to smithereens. Which one would think
hurts an awful lot if one can't die. Like Jeebs complains about in
Men In Black.

Post by mueckelein
Unlikely. No , it
must have been something different. Does an AK change it´s effect if
it rebounces due to love?

Maybe.

[Thom Madura]

Post by n***@cs.com

Post by Thom Madura

Post by n***@cs.com
I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

Actually, we have nothing to support this and it is likely that it
is not true that nobody ever "THOUGHT" to create more than one
Horcrux.

Okay. Sure.

Post by Thom Madura
In
fact - we have no information that he is the only one to ever do
it. TO be fair - we have no information on anyone else ever having
created Horcruxes - one or many.

As you wish. I am willing to accept, based on the combined statements
of Dumbledore, Slughorn, and Voldemort, that no-one was ever known,
before Voldemort, to have created more than one Horcrux. This
suffices for my only point -- that the normal use of a Horcrux,
insofar as anyone has heard of it at all, is to create only one.
This coincides with the evidence of folklore: Each evil wizard, giant
or demon gets only one external soul object per tale.

Post by Thom Madura
I have often thought that the real reason why DD was so dead set
against teacing about Horcruxes was that Grindewald used them -

Used IT, you mean. If Grindelwald created more-than-one soul object,
Dumbledore certainly knew nothing about it.

Well - while I spelled Teaching wrong in the sentence - I used the
plural - Ie Horcruxes - so them is correct.

There is no word in the books that ANYONE used horcruxes before V -
other than we know someone must have since the spell is old.

At the same time - Slughorn - when asked about more than one Horcrux -
although he was indeed upset about it -only answered "Of course this is
all hypothetical ..."- he never dismissed the possibility. And
Dumbledore only said as as far as I and Voldemort know. Voldemort
himself never said. I also have a problem with DD speaking for V on this.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by n***@cs.com

Post by Ron Hunter
So, are you saying that merely the existence of a horcrux binds
his soul to the earth, leaving him bodiless, but 'alive'? If so,
then a horcrux isn't 'used' but merely serves as a binding point
for the 'life force'.

I agree with this. Note that, until it is found and destroyed, a
single Horcrux is enough to render its owner immortal. That is why no
wizard before Voldemort ever thought to create more than one.

This is a totally different aspect from what I thought the horcrux did.
Will have to think (and research) in it a bit.

[Toon]

Post by Ron Hunter
So, are you saying that merely the existence of a horcrux binds his soul
to the earth, leaving him bodiless, but 'alive'? If so, then a horcrux
isn't 'used' but merely serves as a binding point for the 'life force'.
A point to ponder.

Yes, exactly. It's a soul anchor. It seems to be that only a whole
soul can pass on. By removing a portion and keeping it safe, it's
never "Killed", and it therefore can't pass on, and neither can the
Master Soul.

[Robert A. Neinast]

In article <***@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, auror2020
@yahoo.com says...

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

OK, here's my guess.

Each time, the soul is cut in half. However, with multiple
soul bits, they are in some sort of contact and equilibrium
(think of them as widely separated tanks of water connected
by narrow tubes). So, when the 3rd horcrux was created,
the 3 souls were at 1/4 (in LV), 1/2 (in first horcrux),
and 1/4 (in new horcrux). But over some period of time,
they flowed and equalized to 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3.

Now, when a horcrux is destroyed (or LV was killed), it goes
away. So, assuming LV had 7 pieces at that point, when
he was killed, there were only 6/7 of his original soul
left, and then they flowed back to him to equalize again
(that's how he slowly came back to power). When the diary
was destroyed, he went down to 5/7.

[Sirius Kase]

Post by Robert A. Neinast
@yahoo.com says...

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

OK, here's my guess.
Each time, the soul is cut in half. However, with multiple
soul bits, they are in some sort of contact and equilibrium
(think of them as widely separated tanks of water connected
by narrow tubes). So, when the 3rd horcrux was created,
the 3 souls were at 1/4 (in LV), 1/2 (in first horcrux),
and 1/4 (in new horcrux). But over some period of time,
they flowed and equalized to 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3.
Now, when a horcrux is destroyed (or LV was killed), it goes
away. So, assuming LV had 7 pieces at that point, when
he was killed, there were only 6/7 of his original soul
left, and then they flowed back to him to equalize again
(that's how he slowly came back to power). When the diary
was destroyed, he went down to 5/7.

no need to be so complicated. It's like a large loaf of unsliced
bread. Ya pass it around and everyone in turn grabs a chunk about the
size of his grip and breaks it off. It's smaller than the whole loaf,
but the pieces aren't necessarily the same size either. It doesn't
make any difference to the story.

[Toon]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by Robert A. Neinast
@yahoo.com says...

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

OK, here's my guess.
Each time, the soul is cut in half. However, with multiple
soul bits, they are in some sort of contact and equilibrium
(think of them as widely separated tanks of water connected
by narrow tubes). So, when the 3rd horcrux was created,
the 3 souls were at 1/4 (in LV), 1/2 (in first horcrux),
and 1/4 (in new horcrux). But over some period of time,
they flowed and equalized to 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3.
Now, when a horcrux is destroyed (or LV was killed), it goes
away. So, assuming LV had 7 pieces at that point, when
he was killed, there were only 6/7 of his original soul
left, and then they flowed back to him to equalize again
(that's how he slowly came back to power). When the diary
was destroyed, he went down to 5/7.

no need to be so complicated. It's like a large loaf of unsliced
bread. Ya pass it around and everyone in turn grabs a chunk about the
size of his grip and breaks it off. It's smaller than the whole loaf,
but the pieces aren't necessarily the same size either. It doesn't
make any difference to the story.

Hence why someone invented sliced bread, the greatest invention of
it's time.

[n***@cs.com]

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make
more than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did
it, his soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body
got split in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that
case, H1 would contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth,
and so on. But that doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is
certainly never alluded to in the books. So then it must be that
V. not only figured out how to create multiple Horcruxes but how
to apportion 1/7th of his soul into each one -- do you think?

That's how I always figured it. Imagine the soul as a sphere. Then
tear off (1) a piece from the top, (2) a piece from the bottom, (3) a
piece from the left, (4) a piece from the right, (5) a piece from the
front, (6) a piece from the back. What remains is the mutilated core,
containing Voldemort's "self".

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left?

No. Voldemort's "core" soul remains anchored to the Earch, as long as
any soul fragment is bound in a Horcrux (presumably because the
Horcrux binds the fragment to the Earth, and the core is still somehow
mystically anchored to the fragment). Destroy all the Horcruxes, and
nothing will anchor Voldemort core soul to the Earch, and upon the
destruction of his body, it will pass Beyond.

Post by chimaera
And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his
new body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did
that bit come from?
From his old body. It became disembodied, after his body was

destroyed but "did not die" (ie. did not leave the Earth). It
inhabited various animals, inhabited Quirrell, inhabited Ugly Baby,
and finally his current body.

Post by chimaera
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed
by the AK that bounced off Harry?

It was destroyed.

Post by chimaera
But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

His soul found a new house

[Ron Hunter]

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

[zoltan47]

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

That's not how a Horcrux works. A Horcrux is not used during a
resurrection, Read most of the prior messages in this thread.

The key passage is on page 497 (US Edition) where Slughorn tells
Riddle that a portion encased in a Horcrux keeps the main soul
"earthbound and undamaged." In addition, on page 503 Dumbledore states
that the soul in the resurrected Voldemort is the same one that was
the spectral existence all those years.

This means, as the others have mentioned, that the Horcrux keeps the
main soul anchored to the earth. A portion encased in a Horcrux is not
used for the resurrection. If it was, then it would be in the best
interest of anyone who ever made a Horcrux to make more than one
because one fatal attack and usage of a Horcrux would revert one back
to being mortal. Therefore, since Voldemort is the only one who ever
made more than one, this is a further indication that a Horcrux soul
portion is not used for a resurrection.

[Thom Madura]

Post by zoltan47

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

That's not how a Horcrux works. A Horcrux is not used during a
resurrection, Read most of the prior messages in this thread.
The key passage is on page 497 (US Edition) where Slughorn tells
Riddle that a portion encased in a Horcrux keeps the main soul
"earthbound and undamaged." In addition, on page 503 Dumbledore states
that the soul in the resurrected Voldemort is the same one that was
the spectral existence all those years.
This means, as the others have mentioned, that the Horcrux keeps the
main soul anchored to the earth. A portion encased in a Horcrux is not
used for the resurrection. If it was, then it would be in the best
interest of anyone who ever made a Horcrux to make more than one
because one fatal attack and usage of a Horcrux would revert one back
to being mortal. Therefore, since Voldemort is the only one who ever
made more than one,

You are the second one to say this - but we have no proof that this is
the case.



this is a further indication that a Horcrux soul

Post by zoltan47
portion is not used for a resurrection.

[zoltan47]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:27:21 GMT, Thom Madura

Post by Thom Madura

Post by zoltan47

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

That's not how a Horcrux works. A Horcrux is not used during a
resurrection, Read most of the prior messages in this thread.
The key passage is on page 497 (US Edition) where Slughorn tells
Riddle that a portion encased in a Horcrux keeps the main soul
"earthbound and undamaged." In addition, on page 503 Dumbledore states
that the soul in the resurrected Voldemort is the same one that was
the spectral existence all those years.
This means, as the others have mentioned, that the Horcrux keeps the
main soul anchored to the earth. A portion encased in a Horcrux is not
used for the resurrection. If it was, then it would be in the best
interest of anyone who ever made a Horcrux to make more than one
because one fatal attack and usage of a Horcrux would revert one back
to being mortal. Therefore, since Voldemort is the only one who ever
made more than one,

You are the second one to say this - but we have no proof that this is
the case.

I presume you mean the part about no one else every making one. What
we do have are Slughorn's and Dumbledore's words, the characters JKR
used to impart such information to Harry and the readers. From a
writer's POV, that is the purpose of such characters and such
instances.

[Thom Madura]

Post by zoltan47
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:27:21 GMT, Thom Madura

Post by Thom Madura

Post by zoltan47

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

That's not how a Horcrux works. A Horcrux is not used during a
resurrection, Read most of the prior messages in this thread.
The key passage is on page 497 (US Edition) where Slughorn tells
Riddle that a portion encased in a Horcrux keeps the main soul
"earthbound and undamaged." In addition, on page 503 Dumbledore states
that the soul in the resurrected Voldemort is the same one that was
the spectral existence all those years.
This means, as the others have mentioned, that the Horcrux keeps the
main soul anchored to the earth. A portion encased in a Horcrux is not
used for the resurrection. If it was, then it would be in the best
interest of anyone who ever made a Horcrux to make more than one
because one fatal attack and usage of a Horcrux would revert one back
to being mortal. Therefore, since Voldemort is the only one who ever
made more than one,

You are the second one to say this - but we have no proof that this is
the case.

I presume you mean the part about no one else every making one. What
we do have are Slughorn's and Dumbledore's words, the characters JKR
used to impart such information to Harry and the readers. From a
writer's POV, that is the purpose of such characters and such
instances.

The only word we have is that of DD - Slughorn did not say that.

[drusilla]

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Horcruxes don't work in that way. The only thing they do is to retain a
piece of an already ripped soul in earth, so, if you die, you don't move
on to wherever is that people dying go.

Voldemort, IICR, created himself the Potion and Spell that brought him
to live. If Horcruxes had served to get him back, then he might have
used them instead of creating it at all.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by drusilla

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by
one item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to
come back.

Horcruxes don't work in that way. The only thing they do is to retain a
piece of an already ripped soul in earth, so, if you die, you don't move
on to wherever is that people dying go.
Voldemort, IICR, created himself the Potion and Spell that brought him
to live. If Horcruxes had served to get him back, then he might have
used them instead of creating it at all.

I get it guys, it is like a 'soul anchor'. Cast one overboard, and you
soul, even if rended from the body, can't cross over. Is this
immortality? Not be MY definition, but then some chose to be ghosts,
and the vast majority don't.

[Toon]

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by drusilla

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by
one item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to
come back.

Horcruxes don't work in that way. The only thing they do is to retain a
piece of an already ripped soul in earth, so, if you die, you don't move
on to wherever is that people dying go.
Voldemort, IICR, created himself the Potion and Spell that brought him
to live. If Horcruxes had served to get him back, then he might have
used them instead of creating it at all.

I get it guys, it is like a 'soul anchor'. Cast one overboard, and you
soul, even if rended from the body, can't cross over. Is this
immortality? Not be MY definition, but then some chose to be ghosts,
and the vast majority don't.

It is, because you're not dead. But a terrible price for being
bodiless is paid. Slughorn warned Tommy about it, but he clearly
wasn't listening at that point.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by drusilla

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by
one item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to
come back.

Horcruxes don't work in that way. The only thing they do is to retain a
piece of an already ripped soul in earth, so, if you die, you don't move
on to wherever is that people dying go.
Voldemort, IICR, created himself the Potion and Spell that brought him
to live. If Horcruxes had served to get him back, then he might have
used them instead of creating it at all.

I get it guys, it is like a 'soul anchor'. Cast one overboard, and you
soul, even if rended from the body, can't cross over. Is this
immortality? Not be MY definition, but then some chose to be ghosts,
and the vast majority don't.

It is, because you're not dead. But a terrible price for being
bodiless is paid. Slughorn warned Tommy about it, but he clearly
wasn't listening at that point.

My guess is that by the time V created his first Horcrux - he already
had plans for ways of returning to his body thought out.

[DaveD]

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by drusilla

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by
one item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to
come back.

Horcruxes don't work in that way. The only thing they do is to retain a
piece of an already ripped soul in earth, so, if you die, you don't move
on to wherever is that people dying go.
Voldemort, IICR, created himself the Potion and Spell that brought him
to live. If Horcruxes had served to get him back, then he might have
used them instead of creating it at all.

I get it guys, it is like a 'soul anchor'. Cast one overboard, and you
soul, even if rended from the body, can't cross over. Is this
immortality? Not be MY definition, but then some chose to be ghosts,
and the vast majority don't.

I think of it like a safety line walking along a cliff top - the cliff top
is "life", the rocks at the cliff base are where you go when you're dead
(perhaps through the veil?) When you die, you fall off the cliff top and hit
the rocks where you're now dead. But a horcrux is like a rope - it catches
you so you're dangling half-way down the cliff: not dead, but not quite
alive either as you can't do much except dangle there in limbo.

However, you still require some actions to be taken to bring you back to
full life (someone to pull you up the cliff face, as it were) such as the
elixir of life from philosopher's stone or the spell with the cauldron in
the graveyard scene in GoF.

In addition, although you might make a horcrux, Dd said you don't generally
know its status so it's possible someone could have destroyed it and you
wouldn't know (like rats eating through your safety line). So it's prudent
to make several horcruxes (or have several safety lines) just in case one or
two have been destroyed; at least hopefully there'll still be at least one
to keep you from hitting the rocks of death below!

Well, that's the mental picture I use to understand it anyway :)

DaveD

[Toon]

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:58:06 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
In addition, although you might make a horcrux, Dd said you don't generally
know its status so it's possible someone could have destroyed it and you
wouldn't know (like rats eating through your safety line). So it's prudent
to make several horcruxes (or have several safety lines) just in case one or
two have been destroyed; at least hopefully there'll still be at least one
to keep you from hitting the rocks of death below!
Well, that's the mental picture I use to understand it anyway :)
DaveD

Except it seems no one has ever bothered with a second horcrux.
Slughorn knows a few things about em, and he's shocked and disgusted
that Tommy would even consider more than one. It is possible somebody
made a spare, but it's not the normal custom that everybody knows
about and does.

[DaveD]

Post by Toon
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:58:06 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
In addition, although you might make a horcrux, Dd said you don't generally
know its status so it's possible someone could have destroyed it and you
wouldn't know (like rats eating through your safety line). So it's prudent
to make several horcruxes (or have several safety lines) just in case one or
two have been destroyed; at least hopefully there'll still be at least one
to keep you from hitting the rocks of death below!
Well, that's the mental picture I use to understand it anyway :)
DaveD

Except it seems no one has ever bothered with a second horcrux.
Slughorn knows a few things about em, and he's shocked and disgusted
that Tommy would even consider more than one. It is possible somebody
made a spare, but it's not the normal custom that everybody knows
about and does.

I'm not sure it's just about not being bothered to make more! It requires
additional murders, and one is bad enough, as Slughorn's disgust shows.

But logically, it is still prudent to have more than one, provided you're
sufficiently evil to have no scruple about the additional murders that
entails...

DaveD

[Sirius Kase]

Post by DaveD

Post by Toon
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:58:06 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
In addition, although you might make a horcrux, Dd said you don't

generally

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
know its status so it's possible someone could have destroyed it and you
wouldn't know (like rats eating through your safety line). So it's

prudent

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
to make several horcruxes (or have several safety lines) just in case one

or

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
two have been destroyed; at least hopefully there'll still be at least

one

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
to keep you from hitting the rocks of death below!
Well, that's the mental picture I use to understand it anyway :)
DaveD

Except it seems no one has ever bothered with a second horcrux.
Slughorn knows a few things about em, and he's shocked and disgusted
that Tommy would even consider more than one. It is possible somebody
made a spare, but it's not the normal custom that everybody knows
about and does.

I'm not sure it's just about not being bothered to make more! It requires
additional murders, and one is bad enough, as Slughorn's disgust shows.
But logically, it is still prudent to have more than one, provided you're
sufficiently evil to have no scruple about the additional murders that
entails...
DaveD

It does seem it would be prudent to have more than one. The fact that
it is rare implies either that it is difficult to commit a murder that
is evil enough, that horcruxes are vey dificult to create, or that
once they are created, they are almost impossible to destroy. Or a
combinatin of all three...

[Thom Madura]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by DaveD

Post by Toon
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:58:06 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
In addition, although you might make a horcrux, Dd said you don't

generally

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
know its status so it's possible someone could have destroyed it and you
wouldn't know (like rats eating through your safety line). So it's

prudent

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
to make several horcruxes (or have several safety lines) just in case one

or

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
two have been destroyed; at least hopefully there'll still be at least

one

Post by Toon

Post by DaveD
to keep you from hitting the rocks of death below!
Well, that's the mental picture I use to understand it anyway :)
DaveD

Except it seems no one has ever bothered with a second horcrux.
Slughorn knows a few things about em, and he's shocked and disgusted
that Tommy would even consider more than one. It is possible somebody
made a spare, but it's not the normal custom that everybody knows
about and does.

I'm not sure it's just about not being bothered to make more! It requires
additional murders, and one is bad enough, as Slughorn's disgust shows.
But logically, it is still prudent to have more than one, provided you're
sufficiently evil to have no scruple about the additional murders that
entails...
DaveD

It does seem it would be prudent to have more than one. The fact that
it is rare implies either that it is difficult to commit a murder that
is evil enough, that horcruxes are vey dificult to create, or that
once they are created, they are almost impossible to destroy. Or a
combinatin of all three...

Horcruxes themselves are very rare - a forbidden subject at Hogwarts.
However - Slughorn does not differentiate that murders have different
evil levels - nor would the law. (Noting that Killing - in its many
forms - is not murder in every one). We have also seen two Horcruxes
destroyed so we already know they are not easy to dispatch - but hardly
impossible - since a underage student was able to destroy one.

That leaves your middle argument - difficult to create - and that would
explain both the limited number of Horcruxes AND the even more limited
number of multiples.

[Toon]

On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 14:07:03 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
But logically, it is still prudent to have more than one, provided you're
sufficiently evil to have no scruple about the additional murders that
entails...
DaveD

And wizards seem to have a natural aversion to logic.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 14:07:03 GMT, "DaveD"

Post by DaveD
But logically, it is still prudent to have more than one, provided you're
sufficiently evil to have no scruple about the additional murders that
entails...
DaveD

And wizards seem to have a natural aversion to logic.

Human logic doesn't apply completely in a magical world.

For instance - it is not possible to ............

Yes it is.

[Toon]

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

[mueckelein]

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

How can you be so sure about that. Does anybody really know what you
can do with a Horcrux? If you can take a piece of soul and lock it up
why shouldn´t there be a kind of "countercourse" to set it free again
- and we know that this is possible. The piece of soul from the diary
and the one from the ring are set free already. Where are these bits?
I share your oppinion that a Horcrux cannot be used up. I share Ron
Hunter´s version of V. having taken a Horcrux to resurrect, though.
To cut it short: the one Harry had in his scar! Okay, that´s my
version and I know many people will roar now but I still stick to this
theory. Now I do reveal my version nevertheless...
When V. attacked Harry´s parents he made Harry a Horcrux. He thereby
made sure his lethal enemy´s life was dependant on his. If Harry died
only one of the six Horcruxes would be destroyed, but Harry, and
therefore the "one to conquer the dark Lord" would be dead! A very
cunning plan. This was the sixth and last Horcrux though. Noone knew
what would happen if you made several Horcruxes, not mention six of
them. I am convinced that when V. made Harry a Horcrux this one had
something special he did not expect. Voldemort realised that this
Horcrux was different and that it would weaken his power and he
therefore tried to get this part back by cursing Harry with the AK. By
Harry´s death the piece of soul was supposed to be freed and put
somewhere else. But the AK rebounced by the old magic: Lily´s love!
Voldemort lost his body ( not his mental strength though as we know)
and needed Harry´s Horcrux for gaining back his complete power. This
explains not only why Harry has so many features and abilities from V
but also why V. has never given the order to kill Harry what he easily
could have done on the graveyard. But he only has Cedric killed by
Wormtail. He wants to kill Harry himself to get back his piece of soul
and he needs to do it on own hand! Otherwise the piece of soul will be
gone. Weird theory, I know, but it makes sense to me.....

[Sirius Kase]

Post by mueckelein

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

How can you be so sure about that. Does anybody really know what you
can do with a Horcrux? If you can take a piece of soul and lock it up
why shouldn´t there be a kind of "countercourse" to set it free again
- and we know that this is possible. The piece of soul from the diary
and the one from the ring are set free already. Where are these bits?
I share your oppinion that a Horcrux cannot be used up. I share Ron
Hunter´s version of V. having taken a Horcrux to resurrect, though.
To cut it short: the one Harry had in his scar! Okay, that´s my
version and I know many people will roar now but I still stick to this
theory. Now I do reveal my version nevertheless...
When V. attacked Harry´s parents he made Harry a Horcrux. He thereby
made sure his lethal enemy´s life was dependant on his. If Harry died
only one of the six Horcruxes would be destroyed, but Harry, and
therefore the "one to conquer the dark Lord" would be dead! A very
cunning plan. This was the sixth and last Horcrux though. Noone knew
what would happen if you made several Horcruxes, not mention six of
them. I am convinced that when V. made Harry a Horcrux this one had
something special he did not expect. Voldemort realised that this
Horcrux was different and that it would weaken his power and he
therefore tried to get this part back by cursing Harry with the AK. By
Harry´s death the piece of soul was supposed to be freed and put
somewhere else. But the AK rebounced by the old magic: Lily´s love!
Voldemort lost his body ( not his mental strength though as we know)
and needed Harry´s Horcrux for gaining back his complete power. This
explains not only why Harry has so many features and abilities from V
but also why V. has never given the order to kill Harry what he easily
could have done on the graveyard. But he only has Cedric killed by
Wormtail. He wants to kill Harry himself to get back his piece of soul
and he needs to do it on own hand! Otherwise the piece of soul will be
gone. Weird theory, I know, but it makes sense to me.....

Not too weird, just another versin of the Harry is a Horcux theory.

What we do know is "that when Voldemort attacked Harry at GH, he
created his own worse enemy, he chose the one who could vanquish
him". He did this by casting a spell. Everyone seems to think that
teh spell was AK, and that Harry's scar, transferred power, etc. are
simply side effects of the AK which oddly enough didn't kill him which
is supposed to be the primary effect of AK. Either the spell was
never an AK to begin with, or Lily's love was a sort of catalyst that
completely changed the nature of the spell. My own theory is that it
wasn't an AK, that Voldy was trying to put some of his own personality
into Harry, probably some variant of possession, or - wait - would you
believe, a soul bit?

[Toon]

Post by Sirius Kase
What we do know is "that when Voldemort attacked Harry at GH, he
created his own worse enemy, he chose the one who could vanquish
him". He did this by casting a spell. Everyone seems to think that
teh spell was AK, and that Harry's scar, transferred power, etc. are
simply side effects of the AK which oddly enough didn't kill him which
is supposed to be the primary effect of AK. Either the spell was
never an AK to begin with, or Lily's love was a sort of catalyst that
completely changed the nature of the spell. My own theory is that it
wasn't an AK, that Voldy was trying to put some of his own personality
into Harry, probably some variant of possession, or - wait - would you
believe, a soul bit?

Which makes no sense because he wanted the baby dead so as not to be a
threat to him. Intentionally horcrux him doesn't do that. It keeps
him alive.

[Richard Eney]

Post by mueckelein

In order to use up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone,
which can't happen if he has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master
Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is released, and what's keeping it on
the Earth/ And why doesn't the Master Soul stay on Earth?

How can you be so sure about that. Does anybody really know what you
can do with a Horcrux?

JKR knows. She invented them. Yes, the basic idea is in folklore,
but in her books, JKR decides what the characteristics are.

Post by mueckelein
If you can take a piece of soul and lock it up
why shouldnŽt there be a kind of "countercourse" to set it free again

Countercurses ordinarily remove curses, but the creation of a horcrux
is more of a spell or charm, since it doesn't curse anyone except,
I suppose, the person casting the spell.

Post by mueckelein
- and we know that this is possible. The piece of soul from the diary
and the one from the ring are set free already.

They're not set free; they're dead.

Post by mueckelein
Now I do reveal my version nevertheless...
When V. attacked HarryŽs parents he made Harry a Horcrux. He thereby
made sure his lethal enemyŽs life was dependant on his. If Harry
died only one of the six Horcruxes would be destroyed, but Harry,
and therefore the "one to conquer the dark Lord" would be dead!
A very cunning plan. This was the sixth and last Horcrux though.
No one knew what would happen if you made several Horcruxes,
not to mention six of them.
I am convinced that when V. made Harry a Horcrux this one had
something special he did not expect. Voldemort realised that this
Horcrux was different and that it would weaken his power and he
therefore tried to get this part back by cursing Harry with the AK.

That's a new idea. It even sort of works.

Post by mueckelein
By HarryŽs death the piece of soul was supposed to be freed
and put somewhere else.

Or simply destroyed, and Voldemort would take the soul-split
that would cause and use it to make a horcrux of something else.

<snip>

Post by mueckelein
He wants to kill Harry himself to get back his piece of soul
and he needs to do it on own hand! Otherwise the piece of soul
will be gone. Weird theory, I know, but it makes sense to me.....

As I see it, the unique elements of your version of the
"Harry Is A Horcrux" theory are :

(1) Voldemort deliberately made Harry a horcrux,
(2) Voldemort made a mistake with the spell
(3) Only then did Voldemort try to kill Harry
(4) Voldemort must kill Harry himself in order to retrieve
the fragment of soul - if anyone else does it, the
piece will be lost.

I believe I understand your theory, but I think JKR has
written a different version. The DiaryTom died. Voldemort
didn't look any more human, and he didn't seem to notice
that anything had happened.

=Tamar

[Toon]

Post by Richard Eney
I believe I understand your theory, but I think JKR has
written a different version. The DiaryTom died. Voldemort
didn't look any more human, and he didn't seem to notice
that anything had happened.

Course, he was just a soul at the time. Could it be without a body,
he couldn't become more human?

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Toon

Post by Richard Eney
I believe I understand your theory, but I think JKR has
written a different version. The DiaryTom died. Voldemort
didn't look any more human, and he didn't seem to notice
that anything had happened.

Course, he was just a soul at the time. Could it be without a body,
he couldn't become more human?

It certainly would be hard to tell. However, if his reconstructed body
is any indication, he certainly is NOT more human.

[Toon]

Post by mueckelein

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

How can you be so sure about that. Does anybody really know what you
can do with a Horcrux? If you can take a piece of soul and lock it up
why shouldn´t there be a kind of "countercourse" to set it free again
- and we know that this is possible. The piece of soul from the diary
and the one from the ring are set free already. Where are these bits?

Destroyed, it seems. As destroying to horcrux eliminates the
immortality. Seems the soul bit automatically passes on unless
trapped within an object.

Post by mueckelein
I share your oppinion that a Horcrux cannot be used up. I share Ron
Hunter´s version of V. having taken a Horcrux to resurrect, though.
To cut it short: the one Harry had in his scar! Okay, that´s my
version and I know many people will roar now but I still stick to this
theory. Now I do reveal my version nevertheless...

I'd believe it, but Harry is still connected to Voldemort, so, he must
still have the Soul Bit within him.

Post by mueckelein
When V. attacked Harry´s parents he made Harry a Horcrux.

Not intentionally, no.

Post by mueckelein
He thereby
made sure his lethal enemy´s life was dependant on his. If Harry died
only one of the six Horcruxes would be destroyed, but Harry, and
therefore the "one to conquer the dark Lord" would be dead! A very
cunning plan. This was the sixth and last Horcrux though. Noone knew
what would happen if you made several Horcruxes, not mention six of
them. I am convinced that when V. made Harry a Horcrux this one had
something special he did not expect. Voldemort realised that this
Horcrux was different and that it would weaken his power and he
therefore tried to get this part back by cursing Harry with the AK.

No, he went to kill him. Nothing to indicate otherwise.

Post by mueckelein
By
Harry´s death the piece of soul was supposed to be freed and put
somewhere else. But the AK rebounced by the old magic: Lily´s love!
Voldemort lost his body ( not his mental strength though as we know)
and needed Harry´s Horcrux for gaining back his complete power.

But he wanted Harry for more power.

Post by mueckelein
This
explains not only why Harry has so many features and abilities from V
but also why V. has never given the order to kill Harry what he easily
could have done on the graveyard.

Quireell seemed set on killing him, and nothing indicates V tried to
stop him.

And when has he ever had time to order Harry's death? Once back, he
tried to kill Harry, then the DE's tried as he escaped. He next
waited until he could hear the whole prophecy before trying again,
then tried to kill Harry at the MOm out of sheer annoyance.

[Ron Hunter]

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

Yes, yes, that has been made abundantly clear to me by several people.
I completely missed the boat on that one.

[Toon]

Post by Ron Hunter

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

Yes, yes, that has been made abundantly clear to me by several people.
I completely missed the boat on that one.

Yes, but others have shared this view, and I want it open for their
input as well.

[Thom Madura]

Post by Toon

Post by Ron Hunter
That is why I suspect that book 7 will shorten the horcrux quest by one
item as it will be discovered that he used one of the horcruxes to come
back.

Which can't happen because that's not how they work. In order to use
up a horcrux, his Master Soul must be gone, which can't happen if he
has a horcrux. Otherwise, the Master Soul is gone, a Soul Bit is
released, and what's keeping it on the Earth/ And why doesn't the
Master Soul stay on Earth?

I agree that "returning" does not USE UP a Horcrux.
The total number that V has produced (6 plus his main soul = 7) is the
number that will have to be dealt with.

[Toon]

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?

I imagine it's like slicing up anything. Different sizes appear,
probably on how evil an act of murder you commit.

Post by chimaera
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body?

No, the Master Soul could not pass on because of the horcruxes. and
no soul has ever been destroyed.

Post by chimaera
If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed?

Here and there, all around the square. Living in various animals
until Quireell showed up.

Post by chimaera
If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left?

Nope. Souls only pass on, or get sucked into Dementors, they aren't
destroyed.

Post by chimaera
And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry?

Don't see how. No one else killed by AK ever had a destroyed body.
Now, what became of it when the Potter House went Kablooie is
anybody's guess.

Post by chimaera
But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

Only way to survive in another's body.

[Chip Stobb]

Post by chimaera
So Voldemort was as far as anyone knows the first wizard to make more
than one Horcrux. Do you suppose that the first time he did it, his
soul split in two, and then the soul remaining in his body got split
in half again with each succeeding Horcrux? In that case, H1 would
contain half a soul, H2 a quarter, H3 an eighth, and so on. But that
doesn't sound right, or at any rate that is certainly never alluded to
in the books. So then it must be that V. not only figured out how to
create multiple Horcruxes but how to apportion 1/7th of his soul into
each one -- do you think?
Then another question -- when Voldemort's AK rebounded off of baby
Harry's forehead, that body was destroyed, wasn't it? So wouldn't
that have destroyed whatever part of his soul was residing in that
body? If not, where did that bit of soul go when the body was
destroyed? If so, then shouldn't there only be six bits of soul
left? And at any rate, if Voldemort has a bit of his soul in his new
body, as Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that he does, where did that
bit come from?
Or am I wrong, and was Voldemort's original body not destroyed by the
AK that bounced off Harry? But in that case, how come he was living
as a parasite on Quirrell's head in Book 1?

VERY good point! I would tend to think that this is one point tha twe
won't get too much detail on (and are we splitting hairs?), but as you
pointed out the math doesn't work if the remaining portion of soul
left in the spell caster's body at the time a horcrux is made is
divided evenly.

One way around this is to be able to specify the percentage of soul
that would be torn apart and used in the creation of the horcrux. As
Voldemort had originally planned to tear his soul into seven
individual pieces and store six of these inside of horcruxes, then
this would appear to be plausible.

Another way to explain it would be to say that the available pieces of
soul 'level out' in some way... but that would lead one to believe
that there was still a connection between the individual pieces of
soul, and if that were the case then the originator would most likely
know in the event that a horcrux was destroyed. And as we have been
informed (via Dumbledore) that Voldemort most likely does not know
when a horcrux is destroyed, then I would tend to discount this
theory.


- Chip

"Ignorance is bliss, and we're in Nirvana." - C. Stobb

[Toon]

Post by Chip Stobb
Another way to explain it would be to say that the available pieces of
soul 'level out' in some way... but that would lead one to believe
that there was still a connection between the individual pieces of
soul, and if that were the case then the originator would most likely
know in the event that a horcrux was destroyed. And as we have been
informed (via Dumbledore) that Voldemort most likely does not know
when a horcrux is destroyed, then I would tend to discount this
theory.

But they are networked together, as Harry and V are connected because
of the Soul Bit in Harry's scar.

It could just be that too many slices numbs you to the connection to
anything but a living horcrux.

[Sirius Kase]

Post by Toon

Post by Chip Stobb
Another way to explain it would be to say that the available pieces of
soul 'level out' in some way... but that would lead one to believe
that there was still a connection between the individual pieces of
soul, and if that were the case then the originator would most likely
know in the event that a horcrux was destroyed. And as we have been
informed (via Dumbledore) that Voldemort most likely does not know
when a horcrux is destroyed, then I would tend to discount this
theory.

But they are networked together, as Harry and V are connected because
of the Soul Bit in Harry's scar.
It could just be that too many slices numbs you to the connection to
anything but a living horcrux.

Voldy seemed not be be aware of the Harry connection until OotP.
Harry was experienceing headaches and nightmares prior to that, ever
since he first arrived at Hogwarts, but he didn't learn that the
connection was two way until OotP. Does this mean that Voldemort was
also experiencing headaches and odd dreams for years before realizing
that they were connected?

When a horcrux such as the diary or ring are destryed, this releases a
soul bit. Is it possible for the soulbit to fly to Voldy and reattach
itself without him noticing or possibly he noticed but didn't
understand what was going on?

[Robert A. Neinast]

Post by Sirius Kase
When a horcrux such as the diary or ring are destryed, this releases a
soul bit. Is it possible for the soulbit to fly to Voldy and reattach
itself without him noticing or possibly he noticed but didn't
understand what was going on?

I don't think it re-attaches; I think it goes away.

According to JRK, when you murder, it rips your soul. I would
assume that the soul just leaves in that situation. Now,
making the horcrux captures the soul and holds it for a bit.
But I imagine that once that soul is released from the
horcrux, it will do what it originally was supposed to do:
leave.

[Toon]

Post by Robert A. Neinast

Post by Sirius Kase
When a horcrux such as the diary or ring are destryed, this releases a
soul bit. Is it possible for the soulbit to fly to Voldy and reattach
itself without him noticing or possibly he noticed but didn't
understand what was going on?

I don't think it re-attaches; I think it goes away.
According to JRK, when you murder, it rips your soul. I would
assume that the soul just leaves in that situation. Now,
making the horcrux captures the soul and holds it for a bit.
But I imagine that once that soul is released from the
leave.

Yup. Just like a full one passes on unless scared and becomes a
ghost. But a Soul Bit isn't enough to have such feelings.

[Toon]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by Toon

Post by Chip Stobb
Another way to explain it would be to say that the available pieces of
soul 'level out' in some way... but that would lead one to believe
that there was still a connection between the individual pieces of
soul, and if that were the case then the originator would most likely
know in the event that a horcrux was destroyed. And as we have been
informed (via Dumbledore) that Voldemort most likely does not know
when a horcrux is destroyed, then I would tend to discount this
theory.

But they are networked together, as Harry and V are connected because
of the Soul Bit in Harry's scar.
It could just be that too many slices numbs you to the connection to
anything but a living horcrux.

Voldy seemed not be be aware of the Harry connection until OotP.
Harry was experienceing headaches and nightmares prior to that, ever
since he first arrived at Hogwarts, but he didn't learn that the
connection was two way until OotP. Does this mean that Voldemort was
also experiencing headaches and odd dreams for years before realizing
that they were connected?

Well, he sure knew the summer before Year 5 when he sent the dreams. I
suspect when Harry was connecting in GOF he knew. Did he see Harry's
dreams? Depends on how one transmits. A lot of times Harry detected
V through V's extreme emotions. If Harry wasn't very emotional,
nothing would be sent out.

[Timothy Bruening]

Post by Sirius Kase

Post by Toon

Post by Chip Stobb
Another way to explain it would be to say that the available pieces of
soul 'level out' in some way... but that would lead one to believe
that there was still a connection between the individual pieces of
soul, and if that were the case then the originator would most likely
know in the event that a horcrux was destroyed. And as we have been
informed (via Dumbledore) that Voldemort most likely does not know
when a horcrux is destroyed, then I would tend to discount this
theory.

But they are networked together, as Harry and V are connected because
of the Soul Bit in Harry's scar.
It could just be that too many slices numbs you to the connection to
anything but a living horcrux.

Voldy seemed not be be aware of the Harry connection until OotP.
Harry was experienceing headaches and nightmares prior to that, ever
since he first arrived at Hogwarts, but he didn't learn that the
connection was two way until OotP. Does this mean that Voldemort was
also experiencing headaches and odd dreams for years before realizing
that they were connected?

How could Voldy experiance headaches or dreams at a time when he was without a body?